Do science and magic mix?

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Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:


You knew sooner or later I'd have to wade in, didn't you...... [img]smile.gif[/img]

The opinions voiced below do not necessarily represent those of the establishment or those of any other known agency...

IMO, one of the premier reasons for the results fizzling when science tries to 'prove' esp or any other 'paranormal' phenomenon is simple...science tries to quantify, to place artificial parameters on something that can't even be measured by scientific means to begin with, and if a result does not match the preconceived reasoning then it is considered null and void. If the average human uses considerably less than 10% of their brain capacity and geniuses slightly more, than how in the world do these folks reckon they can march in and measure/prove/disprove the use of capacity that science can only *guess* is available??!!?? WHO is going to build the machines to measure? If such 'powers' (such a cheesy word) exist, they are obviously 'wild' in that they are not deliberately bred traits and as such cannot be bound by common means.

I find it amazing that science discounts 'paranormal' abilities which have turned up in generational lines of families for years and years. 'Second sight' has run rampant in the maternal side of my father's family and to some extent in my mother's as well for *several* generations (try well over a hundred years that I have discovered and perhaps many more) yet it is on the list of those things which cannot be proven by scientific measures and is typically thought to be mere coincidence.

So, back to the question (tho I'd gladly rant a bit more if you like ). Do science and magic mix? In today's society, no. In the society of a hundred years ago, no. In the more distant past--much of what we now think as science was deemed magic originally! Conception, reading of weather (using atmospheric changes, intense observation of seasonal patterns, etc), telling 'good' water from 'bad', the list goes on forever. Will science ever prove the paranormal? Hell no! If science were to definitely prove the presence or the absence of such things as ESP, UFOs, second sight, spell casting (one of my personal favs ), etc., they'd be hard pressed to remain 'in power' as there would be very little for them to research!

Are magical spells possible? Yes. Is just anyone able to cast spells? Most anyone can cast lower-level spells but not many can do the 'big ones'. Will I define what I mean by lower level and higher level? If asked to, but remember my answers may not be the same as the ones given by another practitioner of the arcane. Do I typically use 'magic'? Yes, I suppose I do tho I really don't consciously do so most of the time. Are my magics effective? Yes, with varying degrees of accuracy. Can I cast Improved Invisibility? No. Fireball? No. Spiritual Wrath? A version of it, not nearly as snazzy as IWD's, tho.

Is magic present in everyday life? Yes, it's all around. It even--*gasp*--exists in most religious beliefs though it may not be couched in that exact term.

As for the modern day Buffy's--most people I know of who use 'magic' for the benefit of others (myself included) do not go around blowing their own horns. I don't know about the 'higher spiritual plane' stuff since I tend to view my own humble abilities as part of my natural psyche given as a gift by Divinity and further developed as the result of a whole lot of learning, trial and error. And, as a competent reader of the tarot, trust me--if I could get Miss Cleo off the airwaves, I'd do it in a heartbeat!!! She does more damage to us serious readers with her half-baked assinine b.s. than .....

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Great Post Garnet sweetie [img]smile.gif[/img]

But you did miss one of my personal pet peeve's, while your asertions about science NOT being able to quantify the paranormal would lead to the conclusion that "No! magic and science can not be combined" Which is fine, nothing wrong with that...but aside from being able to quantify things, you would think that just once, with the cameras rolling and people observing the worlds best psychic could tell you what order all 52 cards would come up or even a reasonable percentage of them. Im not trying to totaly discount the "paranormal" Im just saying that so far, no one has been able to convince me of its existance.....on the other hand I have experienced a few things in my life, that I have no explanation for.

Anyway for centuries science and magic have battled for the dominance of the race..so far science seems to be the more physicaly evident of the two or at least..the most reproducable.


Edit:: Oh I forgot to mention...to my knowledge schience does not deny the existance of magic...the correct position for an honest scientist would be scepticism, but would have to admit that since it is impossible to prove a negative, then science cannot prove that magic does not exist. At best you could prove that you were unable to detect magic in a particular experiment. Hey in the current theory of quantum physics and black holes, it is theoreticle for absolutely anything to happen....you could pop out of a singularity half way accross the universe while we sit here speaking....a cheeseburger the size of detroit could theoreticly just pop into existance just the other side of an event horizon somewhere......it is possible...but not likely [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 02-03-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Moiraine]

Science IS modern days magic ... think of it : the Universe is expanding, say scientists. Aside for the scientific proofs ... what ?!? [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img] What IS behind the Universe that he expands into ? And ... there actually people devoting their life to prove such a thing, knowing they will never be able to go there and touch the 'end of the universe' with their own hands ? [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] Magic is in man's heart I say ...

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Originally posted by Moiraine:
Science IS modern days magic ... think of it : the Universe is expanding, say scientists. Aside for the scientific proofs ... what ?!? [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img] What IS behind the Universe that he expands into ? And ... there actually people devoting their life to prove such a thing, knowing they will never be able to go there and touch the 'end of the universe' with their own hands ? [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] Magic is in man's heart I say ...

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Actually Moiraine, I do believe that if asked most of the believers here would say that Magic and Science are two completely different schools. In science when an experiment is repeated it will result in the same exact measurable result. In Magic it is apparently a rule that no session/spell/thing will reliably result in quantifiable results.