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Old 12-16-2002, 05:55 AM   #1
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Poll + debate: The motion I am putting forward is that:

"Technology can never destroy humanity except in science fiction novels born out of fear and ignorance. It is the lack of technology that presents us with a real danger. A danger of helplessness and a lack of understanding. The fear of technological misuse can not be justified both historically nor theoretically. The mathematical benefits of having defensive capability for mankind far out weighs the irrational fears for abuse of such advancements."

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Old 12-16-2002, 05:59 AM   #2
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Yes the undecided option was nice to have. Technology can never destroy hmunaity? Did you consider nuclear war? Or do you simply mean man against machines? I really don´t see why lack of technology would destroy humanity? I must say humans did fairly well 300 years ago. And I think I manage quite well without a robot cleaning my house. [img]smile.gif[/img] (Yes I´m very sure I misunderstood something )
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Old 12-16-2002, 06:51 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by WillowIX:
Yes the undecided option was nice to have. Technology can never destroy hmunaity? Did you consider nuclear war? Or do you simply mean man against machines? I really don´t see why lack of technology would destroy humanity? I must say humans did fairly well 300 years ago. And I think I manage quite well without a robot cleaning my house. [img]smile.gif[/img] (Yes I´m very sure I misunderstood something )


Has Nuclear war happened?? Although there was a great deal of armament, I think it's all hype. We are all human in the end, and there are mad ones amongst us, but i really don't think mad enough to kill everyone on this planet.

Hmmm... that's the problem. Many are too content with the seconds and hours of their lives. As long as nothing bad happens in the next few days, nothing bad will ever happen. Or until the TV tells you that a huge asteroid will hit us, or there is a 300m high tidal wave coming over, or your garden is in fact a super volcano. But no, that won't happen will it? No, it will never happen to you. And if it does, good old technology saves your butt (like a helicopter), and you just say: Pfew! That was close.

Think about it...

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Old 12-16-2002, 07:09 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Avatar:
Has Nuclear war happened?? Although there was a great deal of armament, I think it's all hype. We are all human in the end, and there are mad ones amongst us, but i really don't think mad enough to kill everyone on this planet.

Hmmm... that's the problem. Many are too content with the seconds and hours of their lives. As long as nothing bad happens in the next few days, nothing bad will ever happen. Or until the TV tells you that a huge asteroid will hit us, or there is a 300m high tidal wave coming over, or your garden is in fact a super volcano. But no, that won't happen will it? No, it will never happen to you. And if it does, good old technology saves your butt (like a helicopter), and you just say: Pfew! That was close.

Think about it...

Nuclear "war" is always a threat! It doesn´t take 1,000 missiles to create a holocaust. One missile will create tremendous destruction. We have no idea today how much damage a single missile will do (because we haven´t used one thank god). The last paragraph changes your original question. You change from humanity to a single human. Oh and if an asteroid was bound for Earth this moment I can assure you we wouldn´t be able to stop it. And if I had had a volcano in my backyard? ROTFL! I wish I did. I could grow exotic plants then ! But actually the ancient chinese culture was able to "predict" earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.
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Old 12-16-2002, 07:20 AM   #5
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I had to go with undecided as well.

While some technologies are wonderful and helpful, no technological advancement is perfect. Even early warning systems for tornados are still unable to accurately predict one. You are still left to chance. And 'predicting' earthquakes doesn't seem to have saved many lives this year. Even weather predictions are educated guesses at best. And even when you can predict an earthquake or a volcano, short of evacuating people, you can't stop it from happening and destroying homes and wildlife, etc.

And to play devil's advocate: perhaps if we didn't have such technological advances in medicine, we wouldn't have such an overpopulation problem. I know I'll get beaten for that one, but it's like we are 'cheating' natural selection and survival of the fittest. I don't want anyone to die, especially not the horrible ways people used to die before medicine. But from an ecological and economic POV, we are overburdening this planet and no amount of technology is ever going to be able to keep up with our burgeoning population. And people still die horrible deaths today. What has technology provided that has truly been an altruistic and perfect solution to any problem?

[ 12-16-2002, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: DragonMage ]
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Old 12-16-2002, 07:25 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Avatar:
Has Nuclear war happened?? Although there was a great deal of armament, I think it's all hype. We are all human in the end, and there are mad ones amongst us, but i really don't think mad enough to kill everyone on this planet.
Did history record events wrong and the Cuban Missile crisis never happen? The world came very close to nuclear war; the leaders of countries are willing to do anything to protect their land. So are you saying you believe Saddam Hussein isnt mad enough to launch nuclear war heads {if he had any of course} at the US, starting a nuclear war? Im sorry but i think you underestimate the extremes people are willing to go to. Look at WW2, and how technology such as gas chambers were used to wipe out vast populations of people. And you believe if a new technology was invented that was extremely powerful it wouldnt be missed used? History doesnt support you on that.The more advanced technology gets the greater the potential of miss use. Cyber crime anyone?

Look at all the life on earth, do you see it using technology? It has survived on this planet for billions of years, through cataclysmic events (an asteroid strike that wiped at the dinosaurs for one). Technology is not a necessity for survival, it is a tool that has helped humanity thrive. The likely hood of humans being wiped out through natural cause is very very remote (we have survived through the black plague with very limited technology is an example of survival). Technology should not forge ahead at the cost of society for some far off dream of a happier world. People of the world today arent happier than 180 years ago with more advanced technology. Many people are not better off - 100s of millions of people still live in poverty. What makes you believe that will change with technological advances?

[ 12-16-2002, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: dragon_lord ]
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Old 12-16-2002, 07:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by DragonMage:
*snip* And to play devil's advocate: perhaps if we didn't have such technological advances in medicine, we wouldn't have such an overpopulation problem. I know I'll get beaten for that one, but it's like we are 'cheating' natural selection and survival of the fittest.
We probably would have overpopulation even if medicine wasn´t around. This argument is very popular though. Don´t get me wrong here. I´m talking about medicine versus disease. It seems that when we eradicate one disease a new, more serious, disease develops, AIDS, the flu etc. Unfortunately viruses don´t follow the survival of the fittest theory. A geneticly perfect human will still die from AIDS, Ebola etc.

Avatar I still don´t understand the technology can never destroy humanity argument. Are you talking about man vs. machine? You mentioned sci-fi movies... [img]smile.gif[/img] I would like to submit that nature can destroy humanity. But then we´re straying off topic.

[ 12-16-2002, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: WillowIX ]
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Old 12-16-2002, 07:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by dragon_lord:
Technology should not forge ahead at the cost of society for some far off dream of a happier world. People of the world today arent happier than 180 years ago with more advanced technology. Many people are not better off - 100s of millions of people still live in poverty. What makes you believe that will change with technological advances?
Technology has made the US and Canada two of the most wealthy, well fed, and safest places to live in the world today.

The problems you mention are social problems, and aren't determined by technology. Ireland had rebellion towards England before nuclear weapons, arab terrorists have been around for centuries before explosives were invented. (It's a little known fact that arab terrorists have been a problem with the us since the early 1900's)

Most of the places you mention that have a starving population are a)military dictatorships that use food to control the people, or b)other forms of religious/political philosophy that believe that foreign ways are in some way evil or corrupting and refuse to let them into their sphere of influence. (eg, chinese or russian communism - changing though)

Hell, canadians are famous for sending food to certain african nations, and the food sits on the loading docks 'til it rots because "it might contain weapons".

[ 12-16-2002, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Sir Krustin ]
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Old 12-16-2002, 07:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by WillowIX:
[QB]We probably would have overpopulation even if medicine wasn´t around. This argument is very popular though. Don´t get me wrong here. I´m talking about medicine versus disease. It seems that when we eradicate one disease a new, more serious, disease develops, AIDS, the flu etc. Unfortunately viruses don´t follow the survival of the fittest theory. A geneticly perfect human will still die from AIDS, Ebola etc. ...
Well and true, that. It's muddy waters where technological advancement versus survival without is concerned, isn't it?
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Old 12-16-2002, 07:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Krustin:
Technology has made the US and Canada two of the most wealthy, well fed, and safest places to live in the world today.

The problems you mention are social problems, and aren't determined by technology. Ireland had rebellion towards England before nuclear weapons, arab terrorists have been around for centuries before explosives were invented. (It's a little known fact that arab terrorists have been a problem with the us since the early 1900's)

Most of the places you mention that have a starving population are a)military dictatorships that use food to control the people, or b)other forms of religious/political philosophy that believe that foreign ways are in some way evil or corrupting and refuse to let them into their sphere of influence. (eg, chinese or russian communism - changing though)

Hell, canadians are famous for sending food to certain african nations, and the food sits on the loading docks 'til it rots because "it might contain weapons".
A good point but not entirely correct. Due to technology the "west" are able to produce larger quantities of grain and food. IT is quicker to harvest with a tractor than with an ox . Running water is an invention that has saved a lot of lives in the western world. Treatment plants allow for clean water. That´s a luxury in many countries. Nuclear plants provide energy for the rich countries whereas sevelar countries lack that facility, or is not allowed to have one. How about a mixture of social problems and lack of technology? [img]smile.gif[/img]
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