Thoughts of a contemporary Athiest...

[caleb]

http://ossr.phpwebhosting.com/forumpics/look,%20it's%20a%20newbie.jpg

Welcome to GD I agree with many of your points. Now seeing as you are likely to get reamed a new one im gonna hightail it out of here

*Pushes eject button* GOOD LUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuck.

[ 06-20-2002, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: caleb ]

[theifprowess]

isnt an athiest one who doesnt necessarily believe in god but rather seeks proof of god?

i am agnostic. which in it states that you are your own higher power. you believe in your own talents and abilities. you believe there is no such thing as god.

family background:
one grandmother- jehovas witness
the rest- catholic
me- agnostic

why? cause i choose my own free will have parents who are understanding to my believes. allthough they dont agree,they feel that i am in my own right to what i wanna believe.

and one thing i can say about door to door jehovas is just either tell them your agnostic or answer the door stark azz naked. that is the only true way to rid yourself of a witness for good. and by all means NEVER, NEVER tell them you are an athiest. hell they almost will argue with you about it guaranteed.

glad to see there are so many fellow disbelievers here as well. keep up the good posts.

p.s. i agree with the oblivian that religion put on us that if we didnt believe then there was nothing for us to gain. right it gave us complete openess to gain everything we wanted to without the restrictions of religion.its not what you can gain from what religion teaches you but what religions keeps you from learning.

1.why does it really matter if he puts spaces in his paragraphs? hell i could be so enthralled in my topic that im answering that i forgot to put spaces in it.

2.why are you in general discusions? do you have to reach a certain amount of posts to become able to post in GD? i originally joined to talk about baldurs gate 2 but got burnt out on it really fast. at least in here its not all about the same thing.

3. yorrick is the complete opposite of an athiest and would only consent to argue why you would be wrong just like we argue that religion is wrong. he believes in religion and we dont. why bring him into the conversation?

4.sorry to pick on you donut but you complained first.

[Downunda]

@ Thiefprowess: I think Donut was genuinely curious about oblivian, I don't think he meant what he typed in a bad way [img]smile.gif[/img]

As for me I try to stay as far away from religious discussions as possible but thought I might add my 2c for this topic...
When I was 11yrs old, my father remarried and my stepmother was (they've separated now [img]smile.gif[/img] ) not the nicest of people.

Anyway back to the topic; she forced my brother and I to go to church even though neither of us enjoyed it and for three years or so we had religion drilled into us (and Phil was nowhere in sight )
When my brother and I moved to live with our mum (she believes in a higher power but doesn't go to church) we had both had enough of religion and since then I have been Agnostic.

I don't care whether there is a god or not; if there is, good for him/her/it, if not, that's fine by me, just don't expect me to do what they deem best for me. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Donut]

Originally posted by theifprowess: 1.why does it really matter if he puts spaces in his paragraphs? hell i could be so enthralled in my topic that im answering that i forgot to put spaces in it. 2.why are you in general discusions? do you have to reach a certain amount of posts to become able to post in GD? i originally joined to talk about baldurs gate 2 but got burnt out on it really fast. at least in here its not all about the same thing. 3. yorrick is the complete opposite of an athiest and would only consent to argue why you would be wrong just like we argue that religion is wrong. he believes in religion and we dont. why bring him into the conversation? 4.sorry to pick on you donut but you complained first.

I haven't really complained - in fact the first thing I did was to welcome him to IW.

1) It is really difficult to read blocks of text like that. Some people (myself included) are likely to skip over the post without reading it.

2) Of course you don't need a certain number of posts to post in GD. But it is unusual for a newcomer to come straight here. If they do then they have either been a board member on another board or have been specifically directed here by another member. I'm interested to know which it is and he answered me.

3) This was in jest of course. Yorick will have a view on this thread and he is quite entitled to post here if he wishes to.

4) Please don't worry about picking on me. I'm well able to handle myself!

[ 06-20-2002, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: Donut ]

As you may know Oblivion437, there have been many threads in this forum that follow similar lines to yours. I have taken part in many of them, and I pretty much have exactly the same beliefs that you have put forward above.

My question to you is, why did you feel it necessary to write what you have? I know what my reason for doing so is. I am genuinely interested to see what it is that makes perfectly rational human beings come to the conclusion that we are part of some greater plan, and that we can be eternal if we choose.
I am not trying to cause Christians to take up Atheism, rather just think about what they believe, and why they believe it. I think it is important for every human being to consider religion at some point, and to come to their own conclusion as to what is real.

So, what's your reason?

Avi.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Donut: 1) It is really difficult to read blocks of text like that. Some people (myself included) are likely to skip over the post without reading it.

Myself as well. What's this thread all about then?

[ 06-20-2002, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Spelca]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Donut: 1) It is really difficult to read blocks of text like that. Some people (myself included) are likely to skip over the post without reading it.

Myself as well. What's this thread all about then?[/QUOTE]Read it and you'll see. Hehehehe. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Welcome to IronWorks, ,Oblivion437.

I must compliment you on making such a "bold" post so soon after arriving here. Not many people (myself included) would have the courage or confidence to tackle such a controversial topic right after entering the room. Kudos to you for being different.

Now, to our discussion.

You believe that the very make-up of the universe pre-cludes the existence of a higher being (or Omnipotent Creator, as I like to call Him). I would suggest that the exact opposite is true. I find it hard to beleive that the somethingwith the magnitude, complexity, and (yet) infinite intricacies of the universe could exist WITHOUT a Divine Guiding Hand.

Are there alien life forms in the universe? As you said, the sheer size of the universe would suggest that life most likely exists on at least SOME of the other planets.

Does this conflict with my religious beliefs (Southern Baptist, BTW)? Not in the least. I DO believe that man was created in God's image. I also believe we are His chosen and favorite creations - on THIS planet. However, I am not arrogant or narrow-minded enough to insist that we are the ONLY creations He feels this way about.

I believe that God loves each individual person equally and unequivocally. That means that He loves Osama Bin Laden just as much as He loves Pope John Paul or you or me. Therefore, it is only logical to believe that His universal love could easily be extended to other creations on other planets.

There are my opening thoughts. The "ball" is now back in your court.

One last thing, here is my Official Welcome for new members....

WELCOME TO IRONWORKS, OBLIVION437!!!

[Morgan_Corbesant]

i agree with you oblivion (and nice pick of weapons, though the g36 (?)is nice, as in the g3. and lets not keep the godly mp5 out of the conbersation either.

well, are the beliefs that i have lived with for years. i feel that religion is manmade. during the time that christianity came about, the world was a turbulant place. someone, be it monks or whatever have you, but someone saw this and didnt like the way things were going. thus they created a diety, and used it as a tool in a way to create order in the world. people conformed to the ways of christianity, not out of respect or love, but FEAR! who wants to spend their time in hell for eternity, when you can live in heaven happy and free.

bah, i find it preposturous personally. coincidentilly, what has caused more bloodshed than greed, hate, and power throughout history? RELIGION. the same god that says that you shall not kill, is the cause of so much hate, discontent, and violence throughout the whole world. not to mention that all over earth, before christianity, EVERY culture practiced polytheism. then suddenly, during the crusades, people started to convert. of the 70 someodd versions of the bible, which one is correct? of the multitude of religions, which is correct? it seems that all of the "GOD" worshipping religions of today, have changed the religion to suit their own needs.

on the statement of aliens. well, here is MY take on it. they exist. they have too. if you take all of the stars in the universe (that we can see, and know of) and say that each of them is a sun, capable of supplying a solar system with heat, that leaves trillions of suns. if you took 1/10 of the stars, and said that they had a solar system with ten planets, and 1/10 of them could support life, and 1/10 of them that COULD support life DID support life, then you would still have BILLIONS of planets with life on them. im sure my math is off just a bit, but you get the idea. is man so arrogant as the think that "god" made us and only us? if we are made in his image, what about all of his creations that were outside of his image?

now on to dinosaurs. they were about MILLIONS of years ago. yet the time of christ happened only what, about 2000 years or so ago? so where the hell did noah put a male and female of all the different types of dinosaurs on his ark? why were they not mentioned in the bible?

last and not least, im NOT born from incest. i would rather know that i came from primordeal sludge, and evolved from a hairy ape, than to be created from incest. "god" made adam and eve. they had two sons, cain and able. cain killed able, leaving just cain and adam. where did the rest of the world come from?............ i leave that all up to you all to decide.

this isnt a cut on religion or anyones beliefs. these have been my feelings and opinions forever. please dont flame me or whatever. hate me if you must, i care not. but dont flame me for my beliefs, i dont for yours. thank you.

[Sigmar]

Like many have said earlier a very bold post by yourself Oblivion. I am a Roman Catholic, and I will admit now that I'm not the most fanatical one you will meet in your life (I.E I don't attend church much). But I still have an opinion to share with you.

First off religion is more important or influencial then you might think. Roman Catholic teachings for example explain how to be a good person, how to live a pleasant life (in the eyes of some) and how to appreciate others and their opinions. Even if God, Jesus Christ and all of their followers never existed they would still have had a positive effect on our world (how much of an effect is hard to say). Personally I never took the teachings in the Bible literally, I have always looked behind each of the stories in it to see the message in each one, and how I could apply it to my life (I find it hard to believe that God created Adam and Eve as I believe in evolution. I also believe that God was ultimately responsible for creating us and the solar system we live in, but I also believe that he would have been responsible for creating other races in the universe)

To wrap up this point I believe that although Religion is responsible for many wars, hatred/prejudice between people and it has also become corrupt (some would say) religion still teaches lessons to all of those wishin to learn, as well as providing reassurance.

Secondly my opinion of God is a confused one. I would like to believe in God all the time but sometimes I lose faith, why doesn't God intervene in bad things that happen to us? I understand that he just can't go helping us every time we do something wrong or somthing happens to us, and how something that is bad for some is good for other people but my teachings state that God is an allpowerful and benevolent being who looks over us. Why is it when something good happens the (Roman Catholic chuch's do anyway) state that it is God's reward to mankind but when something goes wrong all that is heard throughout the world is "the lord works in mysterious ways".

I must admit though that there havee been ocasions in my life where I believe God is behind what has happened.

But the reason I believe so much in God is because of Jesus Christ who I believe truly did exist, thus proving to myself that God must too. But my faith would be much stronger if God where to send another messiah/messenger to Earth, who would again perform miracles that would baffle the scientists of the time.

I also agree with Cerek, the universe is too vast and complex to have been created without God IMO.

So the bottom line is this,I believe in God and the teachings of Jesus Christ, you may not agree but I won't force you to, nor do I have the right to do so. Good topic btw.

Besides it's more exiting to believe that you're going to go to heaven when you die rather than an oblivion