Smoking Ban part 2, original by Timber Loftis

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Thorfinn: NO, NO, NO!!! Any toxicologist will tell you that the toxin is in the dosage. Too much potassium in your body will kill you, as will too little. You need a certain amount to operate properly. I am not saying that you need second-hand smoke, but that it is not reasonable to assume that a low dosage is also risky, just less so.

This holds true in most reasonings. However when talking about cancer it would be enough for one particle to attach itself to the wrong site. Of course the higher the dosage the greater the risk. [img]smile.gif[/img] But one molecule of nicotine for instance would be enough to start the first step toward a tumor.

[Thorfinn]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn: If you want to dump arsenic in your water, go for it. But you better not let that arsenic-laden water to get off your property, or that is going to cost you a fortune, far more than it would cost you to have dealt with it properly in the first place. BTW, compare that to gov't regulation, where the company is legally allowed to release a certain amount of arsenic, and there is not a thing you can do about it. Gov't tells you to like it or lump it.

But my army of 100+ corporate lawyers will keep you tied up in court for so long you will never get redress. The point is 'nanny regulations' are not the demon you try and make them out to be. Besides if the pollution spewing out of my factory shortens your life by 30 years or causes your child to die of cancer is there any form of redress that can truly pay that back? I don't think so. [/QUOTE]Not if your corporation is not given preferential treatment by the government and government-run courts. If your corporation has to play by the same rules as everyone else, there will be no more corporations, since the advantage to being a corporation is that gov't will give you special treatment...

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: lol. well there is also proof that AIDS is transmitted by regular intercourse as well, so maybe we should just outlaw sex in general.

Um.... I know this is a joke, but just to be pointy-headed I'm going to note that there is a difference. The lining of the rectum tears MUCH more easily than the vaginal lining, and even tears during its more "normal" universally-accepted functions. Point is, it being distinct, it could be banned without banning normal sex. Just like cigarettes could be banned without banning pipe tobacco or cigars. [/QUOTE]on what basis would you do it....if you follow the smoking logic then it is extremely reasonable to out law sex....due to AIDS. However we are for the moment allowed to maintain control of our own sex lives.....for the moment....except that it is illegal for consenting adults to perform certain acts even in the privacy of their own homes in some states.....

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Thorfinn: quote: It's resonable to assume, imo, that the same smoke that comes out of the smokers lips is still dangerous. Not to the same extent as the original smoke, but still a risk.

NO, NO, NO!!!

Any toxicologist will tell you that the toxin is in the dosage. Too much potassium in your body will kill you, as will too little. You need a certain amount to operate properly. I am not saying that you need second-hand smoke, but that it is not reasonable to assume that a low dosage is also risky, just less so. [/QUOTE]So, what are the safe levels of tar, nicotine, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, hydrogen cyanide, and benzene?

[Timber Loftis]

[quote]Originally posted by MagiK:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: [qb] On the proof that 2nd hand smoke will kill you and the demand for proof, I must say that Penn & Teller know about as much about science as they do about being polite or having a meaningful dialogue between themselves. This is just a specious argument and beneath you guy. P&T may not be scientists, however the researchers and people probing the issues are, and the P&T component is also useful in spotting common scams and dodges used by conmen and econuts alike. Come on you can do better at attacking the issue. There is no "smoking gun" (pun intended) pointing to secondhand smoke being a danger to anyone...You conveniently side step the issue that there is crap in any air you breathe. (I see you address this below...)

It's not a specious argument -- it is a joke. See? I even put in a smiley -- one like this: . I gotta find a better way to communicate my rubber-sharp wit. Problem with the show is that they pick the wackos and attack them. Like straw men, that's just too easy. Now, maybe the Jerry Springer fan club actually needs this pointed out to them, but most of us don't. What you don't see them going after are middle-of-the-road common sense MD's.

Look, I've known too many pediatricians who simply cannot get it through the thick parent's head that their kid will not quit coughing until they quit smoking in the room. There are real, noticable effects of second hand smoke. Now, I have delved into the science of it because it seems so blatantly obvious to me. I've been in chain smoker homes and had my own headache by the time I left. Can't be good for their kids. [img]graemlins/dontknowaboutyou.gif[/img] For me, not all evidence comes from double-blind studies, some comes from my common sense observations of the world.

Originally posted by Rokenn: Outside the US the main vector of AIDS is not anal intercourse, but vaginal.

Outside the United States it is also quite common to call any disease that has similar symptoms, AIDS since the United States and the UN's WHO will give you more money if its labeled AIDS.

Sorry I know its [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] but it is another pet peeve, goes along with scientists skewing data for their own ends.....

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Thorfinn: Not if your corporation is not given preferential treatment by the government and government-run courts. If your corporation has to play by the same rules as everyone else, there will be no more corporations, since the advantage to being a corporation is that gov't will give you special treatment...

Well as long as my company is able to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy influence in the government you don't stand a chance. Only way to stop that is full public funding of political campaigns. I didn't know you were so liberal!

[Larry_OHF]

but does your personal tragedy give you or the government right to force your desires on others who don't wish to learn from your tragedy?

Well, I am proud to admit that my post was a bit off-topic from the original theme, and nowhere did I express my approval or disapproval of banning smoking in clubs or bars...none of which I go to anyway. That whole bottom line bit from my post was not in reference to the topic being discussed...I am sorry I made it appear that way.

[Thorfinn]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn: quote: It's resonable to assume, imo, that the same smoke that comes out of the smokers lips is still dangerous. Not to the same extent as the original smoke, but still a risk.

NO, NO, NO!!!

Any toxicologist will tell you that the toxin is in the dosage. Too much potassium in your body will kill you, as will too little. You need a certain amount to operate properly. I am not saying that you need second-hand smoke, but that it is not reasonable to assume that a low dosage is also risky, just less so. [/QUOTE]So, what are the safe levels of tar, nicotine, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, hydrogen cyanide, and benzene? [/QUOTE]Depends on what you mean by "safe".

[Thorfinn]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn: Not if your corporation is not given preferential treatment by the government and government-run courts. If your corporation has to play by the same rules as everyone else, there will be no more corporations, since the advantage to being a corporation is that gov't will give you special treatment...

Well as long as my company is able to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy influence in the government you don't stand a chance. Only way to stop that is full public funding of political campaigns. I didn't know you were so liberal! [/QUOTE]No, the only way to prevent that is to take away the power of the gummint to give some people special treatment in the first place, since there will always be ways to get money around, even if it is a briefcase full of cash given to the brother-in-law of the guy who hands out pardons...