anti-religious extremist gone too far??

[Billy Yank]

Just a bit of history. When Ike signed the bill adding "under God", he said: "From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty." So it's pretty clear that Congress and the Pres meant to establish a state sponsorship of religion.

Those who think that kids can just sit it out or omit the "under God" part should read this thread about what happens in the real world when you reveal your unchristianity:

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...;f=10;t=009448

[/)eathKiller]

Red Skeleton once said "Yes, though we do say Undergod in the Pledge we shouldn't ever have to call it unconstitutional just because of that... If they do... well then, that'll be the day our great nation comes crumbling down from underneath us"

and now i have a quote from our dearly beloved Shizit. The most popular underground band on EARTH acoording the the dowload counts at mp3.com

Dear Government,

I thought it would interest you to know that I have completely lost faith in your ability to represent my interests or the interest of the American people. It is apparent to me that the only interests you represent are those of large corporations and that you have totally alienated yourself from the majority of the populace. You only want to please the few and damage the many.

Now, I realize that you have heard this sort of criticism before, so I'll spare you the dissident rhetoric and direct your attention to a more pressing point: my former faith in your abilities to get your act together were the only things that were keeping you safe. You see, all your various attempts to sedate my frustration and misdirect my attention have failed. The only thing that was keeping me in line was the hope that one day you would have a paradigmatic shift in your attitudes towards the people who look to you for representation and actually start doing your half of the social compact this country was founded on. My hope for and faith in the system was, if you will, a kind of political "Soma", keeping me forever dreaming of a savior, a great man who would fight for the people, along side the people, not just one man. Now I've woken up and I see around me a sleeping giant lying restlessly under the skin of the nation.

So when it comes down to you staring into the barrel of whatever assault rifle I get my grubby little proletariat hands on and you find yourself asking "What are you? A communist insurgent? A Muslim terrorist?" you will be faced with a most chilling answer: "No sir, I am the fruit of your labors." I guess hope is a hard habit to break, because I'm finding myself hoping that this letter will be a wake up call for you. But I also know oppression, imperialism and plutocracy are hard habits to break too, so I'm not getting my hopes up too high. See ya 'round.

Sincerely,
A revolution waiting to happen

P.S.

Let's bring the plutocracy down!
Let's bring it down!
I don't care any more, I want fuckin' war
Taste of blood in mouth and I'm left wanting more
I'm tired of being the political prophylactic king
It's time for some real ■■■■■■■
Revolution, ■■■■ the sight seeing
It's time to stop wanting and time to start being
Strong
How long, not long
I say ■■■■ the right, it's time to be wrong

THIS COUNTRY'S HIT BOTTOM!!!


>_> God Bless America?

Oh whoops i guess you can't say that any more...

In God We Trust? OOps gotta re-print all the quarters too!

Damn let's just bring down the wraith upon us as soon as we can, right? Is that what you want?

it's true what they say!

Pro is the Oposite of Con!

Hence Congress is the oposite of Progress!

Hooray for Congress!

And by the way I was being Sarchastic... -_- yet sadly truthfull...

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by John D Harris:

Actually an act of congress made "under god" part of the pledge, An effort to weed out aethist communists during the mcarthy era.
Regardless, whether it was by the leglistlative branch or the executive powers doesnt make it right, correct or equitable to all.

[ 06-28-2002, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: quote: Originally posted by John D Harris:

Actually a act of congress made "under god" part of the pledge, An effort to weed out aethist communist during the mcarthy era.
regardless that still doesnt make it right.[/QUOTE]I've heard it both ways now as an act of Congress, and as an exectutive order. Being right, or constitutional aren't neccesarily the same thing Look at the Dred Scott decision, it was an constituional decision, but it was not a right decision. If the additions to the pledge came about because of an act of Congress, then it would be a constituional decision. If the additions came because of an exectutive order then it would not be a constitutional decision.
Some words of advice to anyone worried about what others think, or say, when you do or don't say the pledge: If you knew how little other people really THINK about you, you wouldn't let it bother you. Talk is cheap.

Originally posted by John D Harris: Chewbacca, The 1st amendment says "Congress shall make no law establishing religion,or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" not the gov't. or the President and because it's the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law that is being argued in this case, it might not be upheld. (asmueing "under God" was added by excutive order as has been stated)[/QB]

Actually the whole pledge of allegiance idea is unbiblical:

Matthew 3:33-37:

"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not
break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34But I tell
you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by
the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of
the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even
one hair white or black. 37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,'
'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

So here's Jesus telling you not to make pledges or oaths, because to do so comes
"From the evil one".

[Ronn_Bman]

Just a few points I've heard about this dispute....

The phrase "under God" was added during the cold war as another effort to place US apart from the Godless Communists. Another way to show our superiority. This being moral superiority.

Should the phrase "endowed by our Creator" be removed from the Constitution? Is it possible for that reference to a higher power in the Constitution itself to be un-Constitutional? Should we avoid teaching the Constitution because of that reference.

The Supreme Court has previously found that the use of term god is generic enough not to be considered unconstitutional.

Finally, the 9th Circuit court is the most overturned court in the system. Appeals of their decisions are over-turned 75% of the time.

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: The phrase "under God" was added during the cold war as another effort to place US apart from the Godless Communists. Another way to show our superiority. This being moral superiority.

Evil deeds are evil deeds, no matter whether you commit them in the name of freedom or Communism.

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Should the phrase "endowed by our Creator" be removed from the Constitution? Is it possible for that reference to a higher power in the Constitution itself to be un-Constitutional? Should we avoid teaching the Constitution because of that reference.

Just remove the “endowed by the creator bit”.
There’s simply no need for it anymore, it’s a little piece of reactionary rhetoric that discriminates against agnostics and atheists.
There really is no justification for keeping it like that

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Finally, the 9th Circuit court is the most overturned court in the system. Appeals of their decisions are over-turned 75% of the time

Thats only beacause they are wacky liberals.

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Some of you from other places besides the U.S. probably are wondering what the words are to our pledge. See below. Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

QUESTION to all Americans:

This bit about 'liberty and justice' for all. Was that put in after the Civil Rights act was passed? It can hardly have been before, surely, as that would make a mockery of the whole thing?

Ooh, and I can't wait to see what you guys have to say to Dramnek's EXCELLENT point regarding the quote from Matthew. Stick that one in yer stoogies and choke on it! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-29-2002, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Silver Cheetah ]

[Silver Cheetah]

It always strikes terror into my heart whenever any entity, state or individual, claims god given support for THEIR own particular existence, actions, whatever in preference to someone else's. That kind of thinking has got more human beings killed..... Somehow the idea that YOUR country, YOUR way, YOU as a person are more special, more right, have god on your side. It's wholly sickening childish, irresponsible, dangerous crap. Pass the sickbag, Alice.

Religious rhetoric. Huh. All this 'God is on our side' stuff. Yeah right. How can anyone make such claims, whether they're a polician, media pundit, or fanatical right wing fundamentalist? How the hell do they know? Do they have a direct line to the almighty's thinking or something? And that goes for Americans, Muslims, Jews, Irish and anyone else who thinks their actions are somehow legitimated by a higher power. (The list is endless, the above are just examples.) What utter cock it all is.

[ 06-29-2002, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Silver Cheetah ]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: Evil deeds are evil deeds, no matter whether you commit them in the name of freedom or Communism. Just remove the “endowed by the creator bit”. There’s simply no need for it anymore, it’s a little piece of reactionary rhetoric that discriminates against agnostics and atheists. There really is no justification for keeping it like that QB]

I'm not really sure adding "under god" to the pledge can be considered an evil act. I was justifying the addition in my statement, simply saying it was added for propaganda reasons.

Just remove the unwanted portion? Sorry, doesn't work like that. Rhetoric or not, it is part of the Constitution of the United States of America and it is the document against which all our laws are judged. Take out that one line and someone will want to take out another and another until there is nothing left. The Constitution is the Constitution and not subject to alteration, only to interpretation.

God Save The Queen!