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Old 05-24-2002, 11:18 AM   #201
MagiK
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[quote]Originally posted by Yorick:
Quote:
Both you and MagiK totally missed the hypothetical nature of my question. Instead of answering the "what if he's innocent" question, you both tried a line of "well he IS guilty.... or should be" That's not the point.

Let me spell it out for you.

Let's pretend that with all the circumstances, this guy has been convicted of a crime he didn't commit.

Say he's put to death, or castrated or any other nonreversible punishment. What then?

What if that were you?

It happens. All Justice systems make mistakes. A wise justice system allows for an miscarriage of justice to be reversed somewhat. With a gaol sentance you cannot give back lost time, but you can give freedom. With chemical castration, you can stop the chemical diet.

With mutilation and death, you cannot reverse anything.
Yorick..I was not trying to give a serious reply to your supposition of innocence I was making a jest at the sort of government that uses those sort of punishments and has no civil rights for the populace, I was not attacking you or discrediting your post....Peace dude, you are not under attack.

[ 05-24-2002, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]
 
Old 05-24-2002, 11:21 AM   #202
MagiK
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[quote]Originally posted by Mouse:
Quote:
All you need to do is carefully edit out the extra quotes. The preview function lets you see the effect before posting. Just be careful with the tags!!

Hope this helps
Ok thanks a lot Mouse [img]smile.gif[/img] I need to look in to this here newfangled thing called HTML hehe Just because I know UNIX doesnt mean Im net savvy
 
Old 05-24-2002, 11:29 AM   #203
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
Yorick..I was not trying to give a serious reply to your supposition of innocence I was making a jest at the sort of government that uses those sort of punishments and has no civil rights for the populace, I was not attacking you or discrediting your post....Peace dude, you are not under attack.
Ah. The wonders of sarcasm that can get lost without vocal inflection. I've had it happen to me too.

No worries MagiK. Thanks for the clarification. [img]smile.gif[/img] Cheers.
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Old 05-24-2002, 11:30 AM   #204
Earthdog
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Uh Yoric... Im not the one who cut it off. I just said what I saw. I cant say whether the guy did it or not. I just repeated what I saw. Seems like every rapist in prison didnt do it. Every guy on death row is innocent and NOW a convert to christianity or some other religion. No one is guilty of anything. So Every criminal in the world whos ever been convicted of anything has never done anything wrong. Thats what they say.

Heres one for ya. The Catholic preist who admitted molesting 180 kids for a number of years ISNT IN JAIL. Its a CHURCH matter. They are CONSIDERING taking away his Status (whatever the Catholics call it) and not letting him preach anymore but arent considering REMOVING him from the preisthood. They think sending him to JAIL with the other child molesters isnt a matter for the LAW.

Gimme a break. If hed have done that to one of my kids Id kill him. 180??? Get real. And the guy admits it. Think they should castrate him??? I sure as hell do. Its not a matter for the Pope. HE violated the LAW.

YEAH YEAH YEAH. He confessed his sins before GOD and GOD forgives him because he asked to be. Let the kids have their say. My guess is they end up whackin him.
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Old 05-24-2002, 11:30 AM   #205
MagiK
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[quote]Originally posted by Yorick:
Quote:
A vindictive woman is a powerful woman and would fool even you. The innocent can framed MagiK. No justice system is faultless.
Trust me if there is ANYTHING I learned from my divorce I learned that lesson quite well [img]smile.gif[/img]
 
Old 05-24-2002, 11:30 AM   #206
Davros
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I didn't think it was all that "net savvy" a thing Magik - I don't know any HTML OR Unix (well, not quite true, I know enough unix to pass my 3rd year Process Control subject) - any one can learn to do what Mouse is asking - the trick is to highlight the text then use the delete key.
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Old 05-24-2002, 11:34 AM   #207
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earthdog:
Uh Yoric... Im not the one who cut it off. I just said what I saw. I cant say whether the guy did it or not. I just repeated what I saw. Seems like every rapist in prison didnt do it. Every guy on death row is innocent and NOW a convert to christianity or some other religion. No one is guilty of anything. So Every criminal in the world whos ever been convicted of anything has never done anything wrong. Thats what they say.

Heres one for ya. The Catholic preist who admitted molesting 180 kids for a number of years ISNT IN JAIL. Its a CHURCH matter. They are CONSIDERING taking away his Status (whatever the Catholics call it) and not letting him preach anymore but arent considering REMOVING him from the preisthood. They think sending him to JAIL with the other child molesters isnt a matter for the LAW.

Gimme a break. If hed have done that to one of my kids Id kill him. 180??? Get real. And the guy admits it. Think they should castrate him??? I sure as hell do. Its not a matter for the Pope. HE violated the LAW.

YEAH YEAH YEAH. He confessed his sins before GOD and GOD forgives him because he asked to be. Let the kids have their say. My guess is they end up whackin him.
Ummm ED the latest news on that is that the the prosecutors are still building their case, it is most likely that he will in fact end up in prison and since most child molestors end up dead in prison...he's probably looking at a defacto death sentence....unless they put him in solitary....which for me is just hunky dory because he deserves it....he may have been forgiven by God but NO ONE in the Catholic church is saying he should not suffer the legal penalties of his crimes. He got a pass originally because the leadership in the church were supposedly following the advice of a trained and certified psychologist.
 
Old 05-24-2002, 11:36 AM   #208
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Davros:
I didn't think it was all that "net savvy" a thing Magik - I don't know any HTML OR Unix (well, not quite true, I know enough unix to pass my 3rd year Process Control subject) - any one can learn to do what Mouse is asking - the trick is to highlight the text then use the delete key.
hehhe I got it under control, mouse's explanation is all I needed to be sure I understood...as for the HTML stuff..oneof these days Id like to know how to do the nifty stuff like change fonts and things like that...its all syntax stuff that has me stumpped for now.
 
Old 05-24-2002, 11:44 AM   #209
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Quote:
The gun is irrelevent.

What occured in America against Britain occured with no other British colony. The Indian revolution involved thousands of Indians, unarmed nonviolently marching up to the British who would knock them to the ground with their rifle butts. There were so many Indians, the soldiers would grow tired of hitting them down.

Also the American constitution declared th right to bear arms,
yet this was in the days before the UZZI, or the semi-automatic. In the days when it took a few minutes to load a bullet.


Technology changed, but the law remained still.
The Pen is mightier than the sword (and the gun) and yet the freedom of speech is still in effect.

As for India's revolt, as I recall there was quite a lot of bloodshed..only it was all on the non-violent non-armed side that the deaths were counted no? Oops wait..there were British deaths too..never mind.....the independance of India did not come about without bloodshed and death....it was not some peacful negotiation.
(this from history class a long long time ago..so I could have the facts wrong here)

And if the gun is irrelevant then leave law abiding gun owners alone.

The fact is, passive resistance only works when you have enough people who do not care if they die and you have a government really cares if those people live or die. History has many examples of mass executions of unarmed civilian populaces.
The gun is irrelevent to the success of a revoltion, not irrelevent to crime, mass murder, accidental murder, dorky teen-goes-psycho murder or any other form of gun crime.

The argument, that "people kill people" etc is ludicrous when one applies it to a nuclear bomb.

Are those against gun control against nuclear disarmament also? Pro Gun, pro-bomb? If not it's a hypocrisy.

Both are created as tools to either end human life, or coerce through threat of ending human life.

Unlike an axe or a knife, they have no other created purpose than these.

Yes people use them as recreation, but this is a restricive use. Not using it as intended.

The issue is, do we forsake individual freedoms, for safety? Historically this has been an area where Americans have been reluctant to go.

No I don't want to stop shooting racoons on the weekend so that a teenager can't shoot his classmates.

No I don't want to pay more tax so the health system gets better and more affordable.

No I don't want to be forced to drink less if I'm driving, so innocents aren't killed by some (legal) nut who would be over the limit in most other countries.

And that's cool. In general America, like Australia, values individuality where East Asian cultures value conformity.

As long as people are aware of the correlation, and make an informed decision this is o.k. Where people believe that they are an island - that they are both unaffected, and unable to effect circumstances - they are living in delusion and denial.

Guns DO kill.

If you can live with that, and weigh up the cost to justify no gun controls, then fine. [img]smile.gif[/img] Vive le difference.

[ 05-24-2002, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]
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Old 05-24-2002, 11:46 AM   #210
Earthdog
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Quote:
Ummm ED the latest news on that is that the the prosecutors are still building their case, it is most likely that he will in fact end up in prison and since most child molestors end up dead in prison...he's probably looking at a defacto death sentence....unless they put him in solitary....which for me is just hunky dory because he deserves it....he may have been forgiven by God but NO ONE in the Catholic church is saying he should not suffer the legal penalties of his crimes. He got a pass originally because the leadership in the church were supposedly following the advice of a trained and certified psychologist.
This is good. Last I saw of it they were interviewing the ArchBishop of Chicago and some Cardinal. They Didnt agree with the public in that it was a matter for the LAW and not the Church. They wanted to turn it over to the Pope. It was a Church matter. Thats a fact. The more of that crap I watched the more irate I got. I thought "How DARE they hide behind the church this way. Of all the irresposible.... " I think you get my point. They must have changed their minds due to public outcry. Thank all that is right and good for that.

News can be kinda slow around here so I havent heard the latest updates. I hope they Fry his butt.

180 kids??? The law shouldnt have to work very hard to build up a case against the guy especially considering he ADMITTED to it. Life without parole in solitary. Let him rot in solitary for a couple years and then put him in general population.

[ 05-24-2002, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Mouse ]
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