Pissed off with Human Rights Groups

[Knightscape]

Originally posted by Kakero: quote: Originally posted by wellard: Taiwan is NOT part of China. It is inhabited by ethnic Chinese but it is independent with its own government and follows the path its people want. The sooner China stops playing hardball and wasting money on subjecting an independent and democratic country to its will, through fear of invasion, instead of ensuring the provinces share in its economic boom the better.

Taiwan is part of China. It was seperated from China when Kuomintang troops fled from Mainland and come to Taiwan. From then the standoff lasted until today. The sooner Taiwan reunited with China the better. Though I may think that China need to use force to take back Taiwan. [/QUOTE]Just because the Chinese government thinks Taiwan is part of China does not make it so. If the people of Taiwan wanted to be part of China then they would be.

China may have to use democracy to have Taiwan join the mainland. The sooner China realizes this the better.

[Nightwing]

I do believe Tibet used to be free. The chinese government is doing some horible things to this nation. If you want to be upset check this out.

The felling of 46% of pre1950 forest cover has led to growing desertification and floods in China and South Asia. Reports from the World Watch Institute estimate that the heavily forested region from Amdo (Ch:Qinghai) to the Yangtze River Basin has lost 85 per cent of its original forest cover. As a result, the Yangtze now discharges 500 million tons of silt a year into the East China Sea æ a volume equal to the total discharge of the Nile, Amazon and Mississippi rivers combined.

NATIONAL INDEPENDENCE
With a written history of more than 2000 years, Tibet existed as an independent sovereign state prior to Chinese rule. As recently as 1914, a peace convention was signed by Britain, China and Tibet that again formally recognised Tibet as a fully independent country. But having no representation in the United Nations, the world largely stood by and allowed China's occupation and destruction to happen.

http://www.tibet.net

[Kakero]

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: Suggesting that the Chinese use force to "reclaim" Taiwan is likely to end up in WWIII. The US has agreed to help defend Taiwan should the Chinese attempt such an invasion and also sold them defensive weaponry. China has been placated over these sales by the US promising to NOT recognize Taiwan as a sovreign nation, agreeing to limit the arms sales to defensive weapon systems only, and to NOT station US troops on the island. In return, the Chinese have agreed so far to not attempt to reclaim the island by force UNLESS the Taiwanese attempt to declare their official independence! Talk about walking a tightrope.

I know about that " you scratch my back I scratch yours " deal. However, aren't you curious to know strong or weak China's military is? That's why I suggest the force thing. Very interesting to see if China military is as mighty as they boast they are.

[ 09-09-2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Kakero ]

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by Kakero: quote: Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: Suggesting that the Chinese use force to "reclaim" Taiwan is likely to end up in WWIII. The US has agreed to help defend Taiwan should the Chinese attempt such an invasion and also sold them defensive weaponry. China has been placated over these sales by the US promising to NOT recognize Taiwan as a sovreign nation, agreeing to limit the arms sales to defensive weapon systems only, and to NOT station US troops on the island. In return, the Chinese have agreed so far to not attempt to reclaim the island by force UNLESS the Taiwanese attempt to declare their official independence! Talk about walking a tightrope.

I know about that " you scratch my back I scratch yours " deal. However, aren't you curious to know strong or weak China's military is? That's why I suggest the force thing. Very interesting to see if China military is as mighty as they boast they are. [/QUOTE]I'm not curious enough to risk the lives of US troops and Taiwanese civilians just to find out. Taiwan is WELL within range of the latest generation of Chinese Silkworm missiles. Any US naval vessels moving into the straits between Taiwan and the mainland would fall under the force umbrella projected by those missiles; not to mention being targets for the large Chinese air force.

I know that there was a lot of talk just earlier this year about the "new wave" of Taiwanese presidential candiates making waves about holding a nationwide referendum on independence that was NOT going down well in China.

[Kakero]

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: I know that there was a lot of talk just earlier this year about the "new wave" of Taiwanese presidential candiates making waves about holding a nationwide referendum on independence that was NOT going down well in China.

No new waves actually, President Chen win the election again( though his assasination attempt does leave some questions to be ask ). His party Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) have been championing "nationalist policies and distancing Taiwan from China". Eyup, you are correct, this does not look good on China.

[Avatar]

Oh heaven's sake, this is not an arguement about Taiwan [img]tongue.gif[/img]

The Pro-Democracy won their vote by 50.4% against 49.6% so that is hardly conclusive!!!!!


If you ask most Taiwanese people, they want to be happy and free,

They wouldn't mind being part of China if China was a democracy.

Remember Taiwan formed only 50 odd years ago when retreating Republic Chinese forces went there. So they are chinese people of this generation [img]smile.gif[/img]

One day we will be under the same flag, but for now its different [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Donut]

Perhaps they should hold it in Tianamen Square.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by Avatar: Oh heaven's sake, this is not an arguement about Taiwan [img]tongue.gif[/img] The Pro-Democracy won their vote by 50.4% against 49.6% so that is hardly conclusive!!!!! If you ask most Taiwanese people, they want to be happy and free, They wouldn't mind being part of China if China was a democracy. Remember Taiwan formed only 50 odd years ago when retreating Republic Chinese forces went there. So they are chinese people of this generation [img]smile.gif[/img] One day we will be under the same flag, but for now its different [img]smile.gif[/img]

Unfortunately, China is NOT a democracy! And my guess is that neither you nor I will live to see it become one.

It's barely a majority that voted for Pro-democracy for sure, but it is STILL a majority! Who can say WHAT the difference might be in 10 or 20 years? I think it's extremely wishful thinking on your part, Avatar, to hope for Taiwan and China to be under the same flag.

As for this not being an argument about Taiwan, well sorry but I guess we hijacked your thread. lol That's the problem with threads in General discussion. You can lose control of them sometimes.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by Donut: Perhaps they should hold it in Tianamen Square.

LOL Good one Donut!

[Kakero]

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: It's barely a majority that voted for Pro-democracy for sure, but it is STILL a majority! Who can say WHAT the difference might be in 10 or 20 years? I think it's extremely wishful thinking on your part, Avatar, to hope for Taiwan and China to be under the same flag.

The majority here that was won is a very very questionable one. Did the assasination attempt on President Chen had a major impact on the result? Was it deliberately made so that he will win the election? Kuomintang presidential candidate Lien Chan was favoured to win the election at first. However, with the insident came the "dubious" result.

First it was Macau, then came Hong Kong coming back to China. I would like to see Taiwan do the same too. When that will happen is another matter entirely.