In a Pigs Eye....or maybe not.

[Barry the Sprout]

Lets remember a few things about the EU agriculture policy. At no stage does it go anywhere near the EU parliament - it is made by the "Iron Triangle" of agri-ministers, agri-officials, and agri-pressure groups. Its essentially corporatist, but without the consumer pressure groups getting a look in as the policy is non-transparent to them.

Basically the only people who really know how much agriculture costs the EU are the people who depend on it costing a lot. The only people who can change the policy are the people who benefit most from it staying the way it is. Consumers and taxpayers don't get a look in as they are neither organised as an interest, or feel particularly strongly about the issue (compared to the farmers anyway).

Another point to remember is that the French don't get a look in in agriculture - that would be completely unacceptable for Germany. Instead the agri-commissioner is usually from an rural area of an urban country (if that makes any sense at all...). Like now its Franz Fischler from Austria, previous to that it was Ray MacSharry from Ireland. So lets stay clear of the "old Europe" bashing shall we? The Germans hate EU agri policy as much as the rest of the world but put up with it for the gains they get from the single market, and the French don't get a look in anyway.

I've just handed in an essay on CAP... can you tell...

Thanks for the info Barry [img]smile.gif[/img] I had no idea that things worked like that. It is good to see that the article has brought out new information.

As for the article being anti-EU well I cannot help that since I did not write the article. I do find it sad that the agri-types are making sure pigs are well cared for and are less concerned for the plight of the hungry. With the lectures I have had about the US not doing enough to feed the hungry of the world, I would somehow have expected better from the home countries of those doing the lecturing. If you don't think that these regulations about the psychological welfare of pigs concerns starving people in africa, think again...these ...measures...increase the cost of the food products, higher cost=less poor countries can buy. Deny the connection if you will, Im not debating the issue any more. I posted the article and Johnny and BTS have actually brought good info to the table and for that Im thankful.

[Masklinn]

The first problem is that this article is offensive. There are better ways to talk about this issue.
The second problem is that you can find "connections" in everything.

Imagin a guy spending 10$ to buy food for his dog. He could have given this money to, let's say, the Red Cross that helps people in Africa (and elsewhere too).
Then imagin an article starting by :
"It's a shame that this person don't care as much about africans as he does about dogs."
Deny the connection if you want. But this will still be highly offensive.

And now will someone explain me where "lazier than frenchmen in august" comes from ?
And dare tell me that this weird, but maybe well-known (how could I know), expression is not in this euro-bashing article on purpose.

[Davros]

Originally posted by MagiK: As for the article being anti-EU well I cannot help that since I did not write the article.

I wasn't going to answer because the topic looked pretty much closed by Barry's insightful post - then I observed something of interest.

Just thought that it was really quite ironic that the response above is diametrically opposite to another form of argument that I am all too familiar with (ie "don't blame the tool - it's the person using it" or "guns don't kill people - people kill people").

Well I got a chuckle out of it anyway [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Davros: Well I got a chuckle out of it anyway [img]smile.gif[/img]

Well then the article served a purpose for you too then. See a win win situation for all.

[Cloudbringer]

MagiK, did you post the origin of that article? I may have missed it.
In future, if an article contains derogatory comments of a personal nature such as "they are lazier than Frenchmen in August when it comes to letting Africans feed themselves. " would you please point out that it is NOT your opinion but that of the author and if needed, make appropriate apologies for posting something containing that sort of phrase? Otherwise, you might try to find another article on the same subject that has less offensive phrasing.

I'd also like to point out to Masklinn that I don't think Magik INTENDED to offend you personally and I hope you won't take this thread in that manner. [img]smile.gif[/img]

YIKES!!!!
Cloudy I cut and pasted that from a news website, I THOUGHT I had also gotten the "By Line" and untill you just pointed it out I had no idea that it was not included at the top of the article. I will go search for the by line now.

Well I edited the original post for its origin and changed the color. hence forth My text will be in my characteristic purple, and text from other sources shall be in some other color.

No one should infer that I wrote the article.

[ 02-20-2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Donut]

National Review Online. I'm not sure why they discuss international news but they are obviously very fair and open minded. I particularly like this suggestion on how best to punish France for having the temerity to disagree with US Government policy:

“Visit France, this summer! Tip well, be polite, and attempt to speak their language! Act like it's no big deal that they've never done a single good thing for us. Show that we have nothing but goodwill for every smelly, wine-swilling coward in their entire nation. Say something like, ‘I really like you guys. I really do!’ with all the American earnestness and good-humor you can muster. “ That was signed, “Paul Bibeau,” who added “I know, it's a frog name. But I'm American, dammit.”

[Masklinn]

I'd also like to point out to Masklinn that I don't think Magik INTENDED to offend you personally and I hope you won't take this thread in that manner.

Of course not.
But it offended me anyway you know [img]smile.gif[/img]
This is not even the problem. I'd just like people not to be mistaken by what is written in this article (and especially by "how" it is written). This is not a good way to start a two-way debate. This is more approriate to start a one-way bashing.

And being an "article" can lead people to think that it has more weight and truth than any words we can say between us. Be careful ! When you see that the writer has clearly choosen a side, be very careful.

It is too easy, in these times of diplomatic troubles, to find offensive articles toward each others. If I would post some (translated) french articles about USA I read every morning on the newspaper on this forum, some of you would go very very mad. And I'm sure I would have a HARD time trying to explain you all that it's just an article and that I didn't write it personally and such.

This is all I had to say on that matter.

Just some last questions to MagiK :
Do you really and sincerely believe that EU cares more about pigs than about africans that you feel the need to let all IW knows about it in these offensive terms ?
And don't you think that there are tons and tons of things that USA cares more about than It cares about Africans ?
Do you personally help Africa in any way ?

(And as well : do you really believe I'm lazy in august ? )