The Draft

Originally posted by mistral4543: My views are: Q1 - If the country has enough volunteers to serve in the army to begin with and could afford to not set this as mandatory, by all means go by this arrangement. Q2 - If women want to serve, then they should be allowed to join with the full knowledge that they should not expect special privileges. If it should come to a situation whereby the physically/emotionally weak members (both men and women, and this is proven without doubt) are identified, they could be redeployed to a supporting role. This could optimise the resources available.

i have a better idea. let the leaders punch it out with each other and leave the civilians alone

[mistral4543]

Originally posted by Lord Shield: i have a better idea. let the leaders punch it out with each other and leave the civilians alone

Sounds good ~ Glancing around nervously ~ "No one heard me? Good!" ~ Sneaks away furtively...~

[Earthdog]

Sorry but im not trying to come across as arrogant pompous sexist or even the slightest bit rude on the subject. Im just stating my opinion. And in my opinion most women cant do the same physical work that men can do.

Someone in the women strike back topic said it nicely: Men are good at two things, Lifting heavy stuff and killing spiders.

When a woman shows me the desire as well as the ability to hump an
M-60, 3 boxes of ammo, grenades, and her rucksack 20 miles then Ill say Good Onya.

When they have the same physical fitness requirements as the men Ill say, good, its about time. Why should women get a break just because they are women.

Youd be amazed how many women cant even do 20 pushups after 6 weeks of basic. After six weeks many still struggle to do 10 let alone 20. Now how are those individuals going to carry all the stuff I mentioned before? They arent. Its that simple when they can do 40 pushups and 40 situps I'll say most excellent [img]smile.gif[/img] You carry the damn 60 now [img]smile.gif[/img] Its not that women cant make good soldiers, most dont want to be. And of ones that DO, only a portion have the physical ability AND mindset to be good soldiers.

It starts with desire and it ends with desire. If one wants something bad enough one will achieve it.

[caleb]

Originally posted by Melusine: Ever heard of men being collectively abused, raped, molested? No. Women - a MAJORITY of the women, have experience with this sort of thing. They go through pain in labour, they go through pain each month - they usually have a much higher pain treshhold than men.

A lot of men were molested and sodomized by priest or parents too. Maybe not as many as women but still a significant number. Their checkbooks also feel more pain in a divorce

The difference is that men brag about physical strength, and women silently have mental strength that can be indestructable.

I imagine Nelson Mandella had to have a silent mental strength to get through his imprisonment. Leaders of their countrys during wars? Men have mental strength as well. Many pro-fighters do not brag about their strength or act macho after they win a fight. Like I said you and earthdog BOTH stereotype.

[dizzy]

Oh earthdog, as you and I both know thugh, women aren't allowed to have a combat MOS, so, the foxhhole thing wouold somewhat be void unless shes like a medic stuck there or something

[Epona]

Earthdog, you have COMPLETELY missed the point. You have gone back to talking about physical strength. I was talking about COURAGE. The ability to face a desparate situation without flaking out. That has NOTHING to do with physical strength.

I have seen a 4'10" woman face down a 6' nazi skinhead, and win, because she had the courage to stand her ground regardless of whether she could have taken him on physically (and nazi skinheads are not adverse to beating up women) - she scared the living shit out of the asshole because of her vehemence.

Men and women fought and died side by side to win the right to vote in England - which alas was only granted to men until some decades later - and then the suffragettes and their male supporters continued that fight to win female suffrage later.

Men and women have historically faced danger together - in natural disasters, in war (bombs don't discriminate), in the concentration camps during the holocaust, in famine.

I'm not interested in a male vs female debate, because I think it's ridiculous. Until you can see each person as an individual, with good and bad points, *regardless* of gender, then you are living in a blinkered and incomplete world. I pity you.

[caleb]

Amen epona [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Earthdog]

YES I admit it... Im a stereotypical stereotyper [img]smile.gif[/img] or is that a stereotypist? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Im all for women serving in support roles. NP.

Yes Ive heard of the IRA and dont thank me because I didnt plant the bomb [img]smile.gif[/img]

You help me prove a point though like it or not. You live in an area where terrorism is a real, every day, threat. Women there have a different mindset than American women. Just like I said about Isreal. American women arent accustomed to that, and as difficult as it is to accept for women who arent American, the large majority of women in America would make lousy soldiers. If they wanted to be soldiers theyd join the armed forces.

Men are raped and beaten up in prisons every day. They dont have a counsilor to complain to. If they did theyd just be beaten up and raped again. Might be anyway. Of course this happens in the Navy too [img]smile.gif[/img]

Yes men can be just as cowardly as women and women can be just as brave as men. But I cant recall ever having witnessed an auto accident in which the guy got out of his car crying. Ive seen women do it a heap of times.

[caleb]

Im sure he would be crying if he exited through the front window [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Sir Taliesin]

I was going to stay away from this one, but Earthdog your way behind the times on this one. Should Women be drafted into the military? Yes, if their country has a draft. I am a Desert Storm Veteran and through out my military career I've met both men and women I'd NOT want to share a foxhole with. More men than women I might add. I have found most of the women in the military, have every bit of the courage any man has. Stamina is another thing.
It is true that most women do not have the upper body strength to function in a combat role. Notice I said "most". But if a woman can
pass the same PT (Physical Training) test that a man can, then they should be allowed in combat.

Calab, sex has nothing to do with how good a sniper is. It has everything to do with dexitarty and hand eye coordination. I can take just about anyone and train them to be a great marksman, if they have the will. It's mostly muscle memory. I taught marksmanship in the Army Reserve for the last five years of my career. Given a weekend we, typically averaged 94% qualification for a unit we helped.
It didn't matter if they were men or women.