Buying music on a CD?? Be warned!! >:(

[Nanobyte]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Nanobyte: Define "free." Why is it that musicians, who collect millions each year in sales and are prone to waste it on objects most middle-class families only dream about, feel it is their right to collect their "due" from the overworked and underpaid portion of society?

Eh? Except for the top 1% of us, to be a musician IS to be overworked and underpaid.[/QUOTE]Yes, but only the top artists are suing.

[Charean]

If anyone was going to start a new business model, it would be Prince.
http://www.npgmusicclub.com/npgmc/index.html

Whether or not you like his music, he is doing something phenomenal. He has taken out the recording companies completely when he went independent. He puts out his OWN CDs, sells his OWN concert tickets and generally merchandises himself. No Middleman.

So he can charge LESS!

He has a few rants of his own and he is very intelligent in getting his points across. (He does use numbers instead of words, but has done that for over 20 years.)

He is going to start a trend that smart musicians will follow in whatever manner they can.

It is called DeCentralization.

And it is better for us.

[Leonis]

Thanks antryg and Yorick for your posts. The 'greedy musicians' bulls**t that gets regurgitated time and time again here, only displays how greedy the THEIVES that steal from us are.

I heard people are putting locks on their doors now. But then I won't be able to walk into their house and take whatever I want! What a shame!

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Charean: If anyone was going to start a new business model, it would be Prince. http://www.npgmusicclub.com/npgmc/index.html Whether or not you like his music, he is doing something phenomenal. He has taken out the recording companies completely when he went independent. He puts out his OWN CDs, sells his OWN concert tickets and generally merchandises himself. No Middleman. So he can charge LESS! He has a few rants of his own and he is very intelligent in getting his points across. (He does use numbers instead of words, but has done that for over 20 years.) He is going to start a trend that smart musicians will follow in whatever manner they can. It is called DeCentralization. And it is better for us.

Charean, this is the way things should go IMHO, my experience of record co. execs to date has been ... unsavoury. But for an artist to make any living at all by selling their music, they must use some form of copy protection.

The old argument that if it's indie, people will be willing to pay for it just doesn't hold up. Most people, particularly the ones who've grown up with 'free' access to many things, simply do not give a s**t what they take from who.

I've seen it, I know it. If it's not bolted down, it's gone.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Charean: If anyone was going to start a new business model, it would be Prince. http://www.npgmusicclub.com/npgmc/index.html Whether or not you like his music, he is doing something phenomenal. He has taken out the recording companies completely when he went independent. He puts out his OWN CDs, sells his OWN concert tickets and generally merchandises himself. No Middleman. So he can charge LESS! He has a few rants of his own and he is very intelligent in getting his points across. (He does use numbers instead of words, but has done that for over 20 years.) He is going to start a trend that smart musicians will follow in whatever manner they can. It is called DeCentralization. And it is better for us.

Yeah but he has the market share and profile to do something like this. How is an unknown band going to get know without the weight of a record company push for radio airplay/TV time/support tours etc. It's all well and good - and bring on the day when record companies are unecessary - but at the moment, unless things change it's not totally feasible yet.

Although that said, now is the time for entrepenuers to make some serious money if something does take off. I have a wierd blend of pessimism with hope about the music industry.

There is the saying that good music is made in spite of the music industry.

None of that is an excuse to go stealing peoples property though. Leonis post summed it up brilliantly.

I've emailed out mp3s willingly before and will still do so. I love having my music heard. If I choose to give it, it's a gift. If you take it or swap it without asking, it's theft, just like any other piece of property.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Leonis: But for an artist to make any living at all by selling their music, they must use some form of copy protection. The old argument that if it's indie, people will be willing to pay for it just doesn't hold up. Most people, particularly the ones who've grown up with 'free' access to many things, simply do not give a s**t what they take from who. I've seen it, I know it. If it's not bolted down, it's gone.

Too true.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Leonis: The old argument that if it's indie, people will be willing to pay for it just doesn't hold up.

Really? Well, I can only speak for myself, but I'm someone who spends most of his money on CD's... And yes, it's mostly indie music currently. And yes, most of that music I originally got by downloading, if only out of curiosity if it's worth to buy the CD; good record stores selling indie aren't that common in these parts and I have to order most of my CD's online; it's not that you can actually listen to it before buying if it wasn't for mp3's or the occasional online samples. I don't buy CD's blindly as I really don't want to run the risk of buying CD's that weren't really worth purchasing in the first place, only gathering dust after its first time in the CD-player. I'm not *that* rich.

If it's really worth it, I'll buy the original CD in a normal store or online however or put it on my ever-growing "to buy"-list if my financial state doesn't allow me to buy them right away (I may be an idealistic and enthusiastic CD-collector, but I'm not stupid ).

[ 11-11-2002, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Yorick: Yeah but he has the market share and profile to do something like this. How is an unknown band going to get know without the weight of a record company push for radio airplay/TV time/support tours etc.

You might not like my answer, but I'd say mp3s and the Internet. Most of the bands I currently listen to would be completely unknown to me if the mp3-file phenomenon never existed, *because* those bands didn't have "the weight of a record company push for radio airplay/TV time/support tours etc", therefore wouldn't even *exist* to my knowledge without the Internet.
I think I've had a similar discussion with Leonis about this subject before on Ironworks (pity the Search option is taken down, so I can't look it up), but mouth-to-mouth advertizing for a band has never been so effective since the Internet has become popular and common property.
For instance, let's picture a band with practically no publicity whatsoever, whose work isn't available in regular CD-stores (especially not abroad) and can only be ordered through the Internet or imported for a small fortune if I want to get my hands on their CD's. If I stumble upon a recommendation online somewhere for that band nowadays with interesting references, the first thing I do is download some mp3s and give them some time in my playlist; to find out if I'd be interested in buying the full CD or not.
You could now point out that it's very illegal to do so, but if I end up buying the full CD because of those mp3s, is it really that bad? If I don't end up buying that CD there's still nothing lost, as I most likely wouldn't even have bothered with that band if mp3s or the Internet had never existed in the first place (probably wouldn't even know the band existed). We may disagree on this subject, but I think that especially bands who don't get any publicity whatsoever through "regular" channels don't have that much to lose by putting mp3s or samples of their work online. In fact, the most important benefit of the Internet medium is that they'll actually have a chance to get *heard* by a large crowd in the first place. You can't sell (that many) CD's without getting heard, I'd reckon.
In fact, let's assume someone recommends a certain obscure band to me and I want to check out some of their work but I can't find any samples or mp3s whatsoever online... Not to mention the "other" sources like radio and tv. Then there's a very good chance I'll just forget about them completely, to be honest. I'm not going to buy music blindly.
While radiostations are nothing but ennobled advertisement mediums for big record company music, the Internet is an even bigger advertisement medium, only you yourself are able to decide which advertisements you check and which ones you don't (well, in the music department anyways ).

[ 11-11-2002, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Grojlach: quote: Originally posted by Leonis: The old argument that if it's indie, people will be willing to pay for it just doesn't hold up.

Really? Well, I can only speak for myself, but I'm someone who spends most of his money on CD's... And yes, it's mostly indie music currently.[/QUOTE]That's great. I'm sure you'd return a cash filled wallet to it's owner if you found it on the street as well.

Laws are there to protect against people NOT like you. Of which there are countless numbers.

The proof? Ever walked past a street musician you've thought was o.k. and yet not paid? Ever jumped at the chance for FREE TICKETS to see someone play live?

Whatever. The proofs in the pudding. Anastasia's career suffered as a result of an unprecedented number of mp3 swaps of her single. Normally her single would have driven the album. But all people wanted was that one song....

If an artist CHOOSES to give away their recorded music that's great. If it is TAKEN without their CONSENT it is theft.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Sir Krustin: Two comments: they state that 250 million cd-rs are sold. How in hell can they assume that all of that is audio recording?!?!?! I buy tons of cd-rs and next to none of them are audio, and most of the audio cds I burn are "compilation" discs for the car...which are plainly in the "fair use" clause of the copyright act. .

Not to mention the fact that the technology is still at the point where burning CD-R's inevitably wastes a bunch of CD-R's as a percentage of them simply fail to burn properly.