The American Justice System?!

[AzRaeL StoRmBlaDe]

I am so completely fed up with the justice system it makes me ill. I got cited for an improper passing ticket approx 6 months ago. It was a gross and improper display of the police department trying to meet their quota. It was a dashed line, I used my turn signal, I in no way impeded the progress of the car I passed, nor did that car have to slow down in any way due to my passing it. The citation was completely frivolous, so unlike all the other traffic tickets I have ever recieved, I decided to fight this one. I refused to admit guilt to something as ridiculous as this. So I get a letter a few weeks ago saying I need to go to court for a pretrial. it of course is scheduled during a time I have to work. I am amble to get the time and go there. I was scheduled to appear at noon. 1:15 rolls around and I am still sitting there waiting. When a prosecutor finally comes over to me. They tell me they are going to proceed with the trial and to come back at their convenience when I get a notice in the mail. A pain, but OK I am fine with that. So I get a notice in the mail and I have to go back today. Again it is right durng the middle of my shift so I have to take more time off work. (2 horus today and an hour from before totally 3 hours so far) So I manage to get there a few minutes early and I sit down to wait. An hour goes by and they finally get around to me. The prosecutor tells me to go sit in this chair, so I do. Next the judge asks me if I want to change my plea. Which I tell her NO. Then she says she has to sit on a board, and she needs to reschedule. I tell her, I have a job and such and I can't take more time off to deal with this my trial was scheduled for an hour ago, and they are running late, I can't miss more work to deal with something I am unjustly accused of. The judge then tell me that thing WILL be scheduled around her convenience not mine, and that she will not try my case today, go out in the hall and reschedule. No empathy, no apology, NOTHING, just orders to deal with it. By this time I was fuming mad, and If you know me you would know how out of character that is for me. So I go out to reschedule, and they say they have a time avaiable next thursday, when I have to work. I told them that will not fit into my schedule. They said they only could only do it then. So I told them to schedule it for whenever they want to, because I was not going to be there. Then I walked out. I heard the scheduling lady calling my name as I left, but I was so pissed I didn't even acknowledge her, and just kept walking.
My question to you all is, since when does our justice system revolve around the judge's free time, as opposed to the rights of the accused? Is this what our founding fathers intended? Our system to be run by judges with power trips, and people that could care less about anything promised us in the constitution? What about a right to a speedy trial? How is it legal to jerk people around like this. This was just a traffic violation, and I didn't have an attorney, but your Damn sure I am going to get one now. How is it that an honest person gets jerked around this badly by a system, "supposedly set in place to protect them, and their rights. Right now I think the constitution is a load of crap, because that is not what governs us. What governs us now is the agenda of the people in positions of power, nothing more, and that sickens me.

[ 02-20-2003, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Ziroc ]

[gaunty]

at several levels of the court system, we have many many (almost hundreds) judge
positions open. hey look at today's news, tom dasel and the demicrates are holding hearings on a supreem cout judge (our First) latin-american judge.
they don't want him in because he is a c c c c c c c consurvitive!! the senate dems have been holding up (stone wall) the judge apointment process for 7 years now.

[pritchke]

That is ridiculous man, I would be pissed too.

Up here for speeding tickets when you appeal, they give you your notice for a court date, everyone must be on time. If the cop who gave you the ticket doesn't show up at the scheduled time you are automatically let off. The whole thing is probably no more than an hour.

Personally I feel the judge in your case was abusing her power and not very professional. On a side note never mouth off to a judge even if they deserve it.

Then again with some of the stories I have been told about the going on in security when travelling your system has probably gone to the dogs and no one seems to have rights any more. "It is Guilty until proven innocent, and you can only prove your innocence when we say so".

I follow cases on both sides of the border and to me, many of the judges just seem plain senile with some of the decisions they make.

[ 02-20-2003, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[skywalker]

Originally posted by gaunty: at several levels of the court system, we have many many (almost hundreds) judge positions open. hey look at today's news, tom dasel and the demicrates are holding hearings on a supreem cout judge (our First) latin-american judge. they don't want him in because he is a c c c c c c c consurvitive!! the senate dems have been holding up (stone wall) the judge apointment process for 7 years now.

No, they don't want him because he allegedly has not answered some important questions.

To quote:

"Democrats say Mr. Estrada has not answered their questions about his political views and legal philosophy, and could be a conservative activist judge. And they complain that the Justice Department will not release legal memorandums Mr. Estrada wrote while serving as a lawyer in the Solicitor General's Office."

At least that's what the Democrats say, but why is this discussion even in this thread?

Sorry about going OT AzRaeL StoRmBlaDe.

Mark

[Timber Loftis]

Well, I'm sure the judge had conflicts or she wouldn't have rescheduled. And, it's almost never the case that the judge is trying to railroad you and favor a prosecutor. Some actually favor defedants - people are people and we all carry prejudices after all. But, she shouldn't have been a bitch.

When you do go back, remember that the cop WHO CITED YOU must be there or the prosecution will not have any admissible evidence regarding your guilt. If he's not, move to dismiss. Object to any more continuances. This is often your best bet on minimal cases - cops sometimes won't show up. Remember, the ticket can't testify for itself.

Also, you can write a letter (use certified mail) to the police office demanding the officer produce any evidence, including calibration records for radar (in speeding cases, that is).

Be forewarned- if the cop does not show up they will sometimes ask another cop to sit on the stand. If you don't remember what he looked like, make sure to ask the cop that's there is he was the officer who wrote the ticket. If you don't ask that, he'll just act like everything is fine, testify to what's on the face of the ticket, and smirk when you're convicted.

I don't dislike the legal system - just the cops.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

AzRaeL - here are a few more tips I heard on the radio a few years ago. The guy giving the tips has literally written a book about how to beat traffic tickets. Here are some the specifics you should do:

First of all, like Timber pointed out..the officer that wrote the ticket must be in the courtroom at the time of your trial. You have a right to face your accuser. The officer's name will be on the ticket. Here's what you do. The first thing you want to do is find out what day the officer has off. It's usually the same day every week. So...you call the police station and ask for Officer John Doe on Monday. He probably won't be in the station, but they will let you know if he is at work that day. You simply call until they say "Officer Doe is off today."

Step two: Call the Registrar's office and tell them you have a conflict with the date of your trial and need to reschedule. The judge can't force you to appear on a specific day that meets her schedule - she just told you the trial would be rescheduled around her timetable. Fine...work with that. The goal is to get YOUR trial scheduled for the day Officer Doe is normally off. Chances are...he is NOT going to come to court on his day off. (keep in mind that you may still have to take time off to meet this schedule..but you're almost garaunteed to win the case).

Step three: If you can't schedule it for a day Officer Doe is off, then focus on other aspects of the ticket. Did he "clock you" with radar? If so, demand to see his Certification for using radar. Officers have to attend training classes to use the radar and they recieve a Certificate when the training is complete. If Officer Doe is there, he has to prove he has successfully completed this training, or you can question his competency in using the radar. Even if he does show up, chances are he doesn't have his certificate with him.

Let's see....that's all I can remember right now. Timber can probably expand on some of these for you....and offer even more tips that I haven't thought of.

Good luck to you man. I have no problem paying a ticket if I was breaking the law...but it sounds like you have a legitimate gripe. I would pursue it and make the officer defend HIS actions.

[Larry_OHF]

Takes notes....

Woah! This stuff rocks!

[gaunty]

noon. 1:15 rolls around and I am still sitting there waiting. When a prosecutor finally comes over to me. They tell me they are going to proceed with the trial and to come back at their convenience when I get a notice in the mail. A pain, but OK I am fine with that. So I get a notice in the mail and I have to go back today. Again it is right durng the middle of my shift so I have to take more time off work. (2 horus today and an hour from before totally 3 hours so far) So I manage to get there a few minutes early and I sit down to wait. An hour goes by and they finally get around to me.

there are very many judge bench posts open. In clinton esk, of the few judges
that are aloud to over see the case load. they are SWAMPED.. his judge was probly doing the case load of 3 or 4 judges.

[AzRaeL StoRmBlaDe]

Also I could care less about their case load. They need to scedule better so as to not waste hours upon hours of honest people's time! How busy they are has nothing to do with me. Maybe if they stopped giving out frivolous, ridiculous tickets then they wouldn't be so crowded.