Governor Bush orders feeding tube reinserted into coma victim's body

[Timber Loftis]

Yorick, even though you may appreciate them and feel humility, you'd still feel guilt. Yes, on balance, your burden to them may be outweighed by the joy you bring, making it a fair choice to keep living. But, the guilt is still there. Just because it isn't the only thing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We are complex and can have more than one emotion at a time. Wouldn't you agree?

That was my point. I wasn't trying to say you *only* feel guilt, but that some guilt is inevitable.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Yorick, even though you may appreciate them and feel humility, you'd still feel guilt. Yes, on balance, your burden to them may be outweighed by the joy you bring, making it a fair choice to keep living. But, the guilt is still there. Just because it isn't the only thing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We are complex and can have more than one emotion at a time. Wouldn't you agree? That was my point. I wasn't trying to say you *only* feel guilt, but that some guilt is inevitable.

You cannot speak about what I feel, let alone what I WOULD feel. The variables involved are ridiculous. You have no idea what I feel now, what I have felt in the past, nor what I will feel in the future. To proclaim any knowledge, or foreknowldge of such is riduclously arrogantly incorrect.

**** BTW. A word of caution. One of the worst thing you can say to someone in pain is "I know how you feel". You don't. I would sincerely advise you never saying so. "I empathise" is a much closer and accurate sentiment. Otherwise it can blow up in your face.*****

[ 10-29-2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Mouse]

Just a gentle reminder. Debate the issue not the person.

Carry on [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Yorick, even though you may appreciate them and feel humility, you'd still feel guilt. Yes, on balance, your burden to them may be outweighed by the joy you bring, making it a fair choice to keep living. But, the guilt is still there. Just because it isn't the only thing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We are complex and can have more than one emotion at a time. Wouldn't you agree? That was my point. I wasn't trying to say you *only* feel guilt, but that some guilt is inevitable.

You cannot speak about what I feel, let alone what I WOULD feel. The variables involved are ridiculous. You have no idea what I feel now, what I have felt in the past, nor what I will feel in the future. To proclaim any knowledge, or foreknowldge of such is riduclously arrogantly incorrect.

**** BTW. A word of caution. One of the worst thing you can say to someone in pain is "I know how you feel". You don't. I would sincerely advise you never saying so. "I empathise" is a much closer and accurate sentiment. Otherwise it can blow up in your face.***** [/QUOTE]Yadda yadda blah blah flur snur. Duck issue, rant and rail. heard it before. Often.

Arrogant? You call me that a lot. You seem to forget, it is simply not my fault that I'm better than everyone else. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 10-29-2003, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Yorick, even though you may appreciate them and feel humility, you'd still feel guilt. Yes, on balance, your burden to them may be outweighed by the joy you bring, making it a fair choice to keep living. But, the guilt is still there. Just because it isn't the only thing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We are complex and can have more than one emotion at a time. Wouldn't you agree? That was my point. I wasn't trying to say you *only* feel guilt, but that some guilt is inevitable.

You cannot speak about what I feel, let alone what I WOULD feel. The variables involved are ridiculous. You have no idea what I feel now, what I have felt in the past, nor what I will feel in the future. To proclaim any knowledge, or foreknowldge of such is riduclously arrogantly incorrect.

**** BTW. A word of caution. One of the worst thing you can say to someone in pain is "I know how you feel". You don't. I would sincerely advise you never saying so. "I empathise" is a much closer and accurate sentiment. Otherwise it can blow up in your face.***** [/QUOTE]Yadda yadda blah blah flur snur. Duck issue, rant and rail. heard it before. Often.

Arrogant? You call me that a lot. You seem to forget, it is simply not my fault that I'm better than everyone else. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Then why do it? You can't know what I feel, so why try and declare what I would feel.

I took the time to explain how I would feel, and yet you are arguing with that? I'm sorry Timber, but you are in no place to argue that.

If I am here saying "I am sad" you cannot say "No you're not, you're happy". Similarly I I say, given a set of circumstances, I would feel this because I have felt this before in similar circumstances, you cannot argue against it.

To do so is lunacy. If you've "heqard it all before" yet continue that line of arguing, it shows either you're a slow learner, or someone that arrogantly assumes their experience to be applicable for all humanity.

[Maelakin]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Arrogant? You call me that a lot. You seem to forget, it is simply not my fault that I'm better than everyone else. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Except for me of course! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Yorick: Then why do it? You can't know what I feel, so why try and declare what I would feel. I took the time to explain how I would feel, and yet you are arguing with that? I'm sorry Timber, but you are in no place to argue that. If I am here saying "I am sad" you cannot say "No you're not, you're happy". Similarly I I say, given a set of circumstances, I would feel this because I have felt this before in similar circumstances, you cannot argue against it. To do so is lunacy. If you've "heqard it all before" yet continue that line of arguing, it shows either you're a slow learner, or someone that arrogantly assumes their experience to be applicable for all humanity.

Agreed. You have once again effectively ducked the issue, sidestepped, and pounded me senseless with the utterly obvious. Why I bother I will never know.

You jumped from my assertion that they might feel guilt to the statement that they would not, or should not, in THE WORLD ACCORDING TO YORICK. You then took my statement that you would be likely to feel *some* guilt, along with other feelings, and ducked the whole thing (perhaps realizing the weakness of your arguement, or perhaps just being affected by that huge chip on your shoulder and once again finding offense where none was intended) to rail back at me "You will not dictate or know how I feel." Duh. And the sky is blue. Thanks for the news flash. You missed the entire point.

The irony is that you are insisting on telling the terminally ill how they are allowed to feel and why they must change their attitude and accept life and eschew any hopes at suicide.

Well, allow me to retort to you in the same fashion. If you don't feel guilty, you are simply not looking at it right. You need to adjust your emotions, and accept my view of reality, so that you would wish to kill yourself if faced with the situation again. Yes, the love and appreciation you feel is fine, but you need some guilt, too. Enough, in fact, to loathe life. And, I will lobby for legislation forcing you to feel this way. Else, you become the guilt-free beneficiary of other's efforts and hard work, which we affectionately call a mooch.

pot-Kettle-Black

[ 10-29-2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]