Clerics vs. Wizards

[Alson]

Originally posted by Jim: It would be rude not too so....

Final round now, perhaps?

Would you like some cheese with that sir

No thanks. I'm stuffed!

Mine too . Provided the mage has some something in his/her spell book and is above a certain level. There must be a point within the mages career where he/she will become the dominating class, because at lower levels, then can suck! While I agree that mages have the potential to become the most powerful class, this (IMO) is far from the truth at the start of the game.

You have a point there. However, BG2 abounds in scrolls & wands - so even a level 1 Mage can take on, say, Irenicus. [img]tongue.gif[/img] No such thing for Clerics - yes, we can find a Neutralize Poison scroll here and there, but compare those to a scroll of Incendiary Cloud (available in chapter 1!).

Same situation regarding levels. I think a low level cleric/mage battle could be very close indeed. They are certainly more use as backup tanks and party protectors.

Let's "dichotomize":
(1) High level Mage vs. high level Cleric - Mage wins, I think we've agreed on this one.
(2) Mid level Mage vs. mid level Cleric - interesting fight... but the Mage will probably have the cutting edge.
(3) Low level Mage (no scrolls) vs. low level Cleric - Cleric wins, hands down.
(4) Low level Mage (bunch of scrolls) vs. low level Cleric - it's an arcane fiesta!

Absolutely :-D Especially when I'm trying to blitz the game in as shorter time as possible. I tend not to be overly organised for many encounters.

Heh... I'm actually getting better at this whole "don't forget to X" thing - as on my current no-reloads games spree, I can hardly afford to forget anything.

Does the improved Kitthix have STR drain? I thought it just had poisonous and hold attacks. STR draining aside though, this remains an awesome summon (something that I'm almost tempted not to upgrade when I play the game).

I'm quite sure Improved Kitthix has no STR drain attack - but it's one hell of a spider summon, still. I only upgrade it post-Underdark as a principle. I do the same with most IU items.

Ahh, good old IEEP. Strange how the Huge Spider (the 3rd from bottom in terms of power) has the highest enchantment.

Actually, Infinity Explorer != IEEP. Infinity Explorer is tacitly called IE, while IEEP refers to the Infinity Engine Editor Pro. But I'm being petty. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Hmm, thought they would be better than 7's, although that's not too bad. Is it 7's all round, and is the save vs death lower (to avoid the poison).

Death 4, Wands 6, Poly 5, Breath 4, Spells 7. Death is decent - while Spells is somewhat high for my liking. Since Web gives a -2 penalty, 7 means 45% of being webbed.

Now we're starting to go around in circles

Darn, you've noticed.

Still, globe of blades remains the ultimate tank spell, and is even more effective when combined with blade barrier. To top off the clerics defenses, an Aura of Flaming Death should suffice (although these protections are more for melee protection - still they're quite impressive IMO).

GoB & AoFD are not *bad*... but they're so trumped by the other classes' HLA it's not even funny. ToB was the Cleric's last chance... but BioWare gave him the finger. Heavy sigh!

Yes, but if you have a party of 6, some members *will* take damage.

I question this statement. If you've got 2 full time casters, 2 archer-type characters and 2 full time tanks (Fighter/Mage-ish kind of tanks) - certainly a well balanced & common type of party, taking damage really isn't a must, due to the lousy targetting abilities of most enemies. Again - and I really said it too much for my liking - sad, but true.

A cleric will have defensive harmony, 10' evil protection, strength buffs etc much earlier.

That's a strong advantage, considering the fact that the early game is usually the toughest part. It can be emulated by scrolls - but most players (myself included, unfortunately for me) suffer from the all-too-common "I'll probably need *this* one later!" syndrome. Ever finished your Asp's Nest supply? Didn't think so.

I guess their weaker abilities then include melee combat and combat spell casting,

LOL! This must be the source of my Cleric loathing, as my battles usually consist only of melee combat and combat spell casting. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

although they certainly have their strong areas. Now a Bard is a Jack of all Trades, excelling in neither thievery, fighting or spell casting, but they still make excellent characters because of their versitality.

Bard's share the same fate as the Cleric from my point of view. Have you read my old "Of BG2 and Conceptions" thread? ToB goes a long way to fix this, though, by giving them Traps o' Cheese.

LOL tell me about the limit. You normally leave me room for a single smiley [censored for my nefarious needs] (and there it goes). I think we've exhausted this debate now, since it has basically boiled down to specific circumstances and playing styles.

Agreed. It's still fun, though.

But Foebane can be blocked by an enemy's magic resistance, and if you're surrounded by 2 dragons and 2 Wyverny type things (and a few frost salamanders for good measure) (think Improved Abazigal), taking over 40 damage per round is very common on insane.

I would never dream of sending a non-protected character vs. one of the most frightening enemies in the game! I truly believe that anyone who sends a character who can be hurt for that much damage over such a short period of time is either looking for a challenge, or just misusing resources.

Certainly no more than a round though, which is a good compromise for the full restoration of your party. What is the casting time? I don't have it to hand.

Only 3, actually! What was Anomen casting, then? Perhaps I was confusing it in my mind with Heal? Hmmm.

Well, I'm fresh out of material now. I think the closing remarks can only me...mages *can* be supremely powerful and clerics *are* a useful *party* addition. Phew!

I'm a bit paraphrasing, but I'll say: mages *are* supremely powerful and clerics *can* be a useful *party* addition. Phew! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 06-13-2003, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]

[Xen]

[img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] I like the"war" [img]tongue.gif[/img]
ntopic:

[Assassin]

Single-classed Clerics are worthless IMO, but dual-classed, they're pretty powerful. However, Mages can be better Tanks, with Mirror Image/Stoneskin/Protection from Magical Weapons. And, who, honestly, changes weapons? I can't really recall that many. In fact, none.

For me, if I ever to play a single-class Cleric, I'd play it as if I knew that the Cleric was going to take damage every battle. I'd just try to lower the AC to lower the chance of taking damage, and use AoF to lessen the Damage taken. However, for Mages, I hate it if my Mages take any damage. They should never take damage, and they usually don't, which is why I think that they are pretty good Tanks in their right.

[waverider]

i play cledric/mage ...

you have got 2classes in 1 [img]smile.gif[/img]