LOTR Problem...

[Bernardo]

Yeah... he's quite dum... I still think Gandalf could have been more cool... have more action!!! well, for example he could have taken the palantir and have a chat with Sauron... see what he was up to... but gandalf is always afraid of everything: he doesen't want to touch the ring, he wouldn't touch the Palantir, he looses his staff against the nazgul (although I don't recall this in the book)... he's a coward... well no, not a coward... he fought and defeated the balrog... that was worth 10.000 experience points!

[dplax]

Originally posted by Bernardo: I actually think Sauron was afraid of the Gandalf and the Istari... and of the elves... Bud didn't Gandalf have one of the rings of power? Anyway there are 2 other thingsI don't understand... 1) was the great eye a "normal" eye, or did it see much more...? (for ex. Sam and Frodo hide under a ROCK from the eye... shouldn't it have noticed them?) 2) how couldn't the eye see the rings of the elves??? I mean where the hell did they hide? And one question: Do you think the eye of sauron might have some connection with the eye of Osiris (RA, egyptian god)???

Gandalf did have the ring of fire, which Cirdan gave him when Gandalf arrived in Middle Earth. He did not wear it until Sauron was overcome for reasons detailed below.

1) It was the shape Sauron took after he lost the possibility to take human shape (this happened in the destruction of Numenor). It could see through walls, but in the film it could not.

2) He couldn't see the elven rings because he could only see them when they were worn. When the elves learnt he made the master ring they all took off their rings and did not put them on again until he was defeated. Because had they been wearing their rings Sauron would have been able to control them.

[Bernardo]

Now that's better! so the eye WAS very powerfull... but in this case the film makes many mistakes... the elves are WEARING the rings! For example Galadriel SHOWS to Frodo her ring (it's one of the three elven ones right?) and she's wearing it...!

[Thoran]

Just because you're powerful doesn't mean you're not afraid. Sauron knew that the real power opposing him (the Valar) were a whole lot more powerful than he was. He knew that the Heir to the Throne of Gondor COULD be associated with his defeat.

Things start to make more sense when you realize that Tolkien created a prophecy driven world. Sauron feared because he KNEW that he could be defeated.

As far as a wall around the Volcano... what do you think the Mountains surrounding Mordor are? The Black Gate? Mordor was itself a huge impregnable fortress... except that no fortress is impregnable. You guys have to think bigger, you don't need walls around your volcano when your entire land is a massive fortress.

The rings of power were hidden from Sauron by the power of the Elves... which is one of the reasons why they were desperate to keep the one ring away from him. Once he had it, the illusions of the elves would be stripped away, the three and all their works would be laid bare for him to see and plunder.

The eye could see a lot, but it needed to know where to look. As long as Sam and Frodo didn't draw it's attention they were safe.

[Bernardo]

Yes, I didn't really understand the wall...

I didn't like the eye as a ray of light... it was too simple... I imagine the eye as a huge, powerful thing... not a TORCH!!!

[Thoran]

Originally posted by dplax: 2) He couldn't see the elven rings because he could only see them when they were worn. When the elves learnt he made the master ring they all took off their rings and did not put them on again until he was defeated. Because had they been wearing their rings Sauron would have been able to control them.

As I recall, that's not exactly correct.

While Sauron had the One Ring (During the Second Age) the Elves knew the only way to hid their rings from him was to not use them... so they didn't wear them. Once Sauron was defeated (beginning of the Third Age), the Elves started using thier rings (they belived... somewhat hopefully... that the One Ring was lost forever). What freaked them out is that now that they'd used the rings, if Sauron DID get his ring back he would be able to detect them and everything the Elves had done with them... VERY bad for Elveses.

[Bernardo]

So why did Gandalf and Elrond risk so much sending FRODO the dodo in Mordor??? they must have drank too much!!!

[Thoran]

I think they did a pretty good job covering that in FotR... it seemed that Hobbits were the only race that could resist the rings corrupting influence. The thing about the One Ring is that the more powerful you were, the harder it would be for you to resist it. That's why Gandalf refused to take possession of it (although in the book he does touch it)

Pretty cool idea, and dovetails neatly into the "little guy saves the day" theme that twines throughout the books.

If you really want answers to some of these questions, a deeper understanding of the world that LotR takes place IN... then you may be a candidate for "The Silmarillion" and "Unfinished Tales". They're not as easy to read but contain an amazing amount of information and answers to most of the questions you're asking.

[ 01-12-2005, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Thoran ]

[Jaradu]

Interesting discussion, and thanks to all for answering some questions that I too was wondering.

One thing: I read somewhere (can't remember where anymore... although I do recall it was an official book) that before the Age in which LotR is set, Sauron was but a minion of a being tens of times more powerful than himself... is this true? An evil greater and more powerful than Sauron?

[ 01-12-2005, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Jaradu ]

[Luvian]

Originally posted by Jaradu: Interesting discussion, and thanks to all for answering some questions that I too was wondering. One thing: I read somewhere (can't remember where anymore... although I do recall it was an official book) that before the Age in which LotR is set, Sauron was but a minion of being tens of times more powerful than himself... is this true? An evil greater and more powerful than Sauron?

Yes it's true. He took his boss's place once he got defeated I think.