What grieves me and gives me a heavy heart

[Jerr Conner]

Everyone didn't unite. There were a minority that wanted to blame anyone of Middle-Eastern Descent for September 11th.

I had seen quite a few online voicing as such.

Therefore, we all didn't unite. Although I will agree that a majority united temporarily, up until the Iraq War.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Skunk: THERE IS NO PACIFIST MOVEMENT in Europe - there is a JUSTICE movement. If Iraq invades Kuwait - THAT'S WRONG If the UK invades Iraq - THAT'S WRONG If a Palestinian straps on bombs and kills innocent people - THAT'S WRONG If an Israeli warplane bombs a civilian appartment block - THAT'S WRONG. That's the concensus that is gaining momentum - that justice is universal and not determined by the victor or the most powerful. And the more it gains a foothold in the european psyche, the more proud I am to be european.

Oh that's rich. The Europeans are the victors of world history. So they are prescribing what "justice" is universal and what isn't. Nothing ever changes. Let me put this to you.

If Serbs kill Muslism genocidally and Europe does nothing to prevent it (relying on America), that's wrong.
If Nazis kill Jews and Europe does nothing (relying on America) that's wrong.
If Sunnis kill Kurds and Europe does nothing that's wrong.


Europeans:
Wiped out the Tasmanian aborigine, perpetuated slavery, and in 100 years reduced the South American Amerindian population from 25 million to around 2 million. Massive genocide is wrong.

What happened to the Celt, the Lapp, the Basque and the Sorb? Europeans have the worst guilt on the planet Skunk. Europeans humiliating China (Hong Kong), creating apartheid in South Africa, partitioning India, creating Palestine, Iraq, Kuwait and Jordan...

the list goes on.

The would have been no Iraq-Kuwait war, if Britain hadn't kept the little slice of oil rich Kuwait seperate from Iraq. Doing so was wrong. Britain and Russia's political and economic carving up of Persia is unbelievably horrific. B.P. are still reaping the rewards from the exploitation of the area, while the Americans are now paying for the sins of the British and Russians actions.

Mate... get your own house in order.

I think a pacifist movement would be a good thing. So would losing the preoccupation with being no.1

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Jerr Conner: Everyone didn't unite. There were a minority that wanted to blame anyone of Middle-Eastern Descent for September 11th. I had seen quite a few online voicing as such. Therefore, we all didn't unite. Although I will agree that a majority united temporarily, up until the Iraq War.

I was speaking about global politics and the outpouring of compassion and solidarity that followed the attacks. Not a few posts on the internet.

The government of China stood side by side with the USA, France and even Iran.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by wellard: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: The fact is, the world united a little after 9/11. UNITED. Empathy, support, differences put aside. It was an incredible time to be alive. The city of NYC united also. COnnection and love grew from the ashes of horror. Since then the divisions have only grown. All are to blame. But it would seem these divisions are Al-Qaedas greatest victory.

I put it to you Yorick that the feeling is still there. The newspapers and such thrive on and magnify all points of division and try to fill us with despair, yet the world in large is filled with beauty, love, tolerance and understanding. What we need to do is celebrate the things that bring us together. Not sit back and watch the TV doom reporters pick the scabs of those things that divide us.

I sometimes feel that the true evil is the press that feeds us insecurity and inadequacy [/QUOTE]Best post in this thread. Well said Wellard. Thanks mate. Good things to remember.

[Skunk]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Skunk: THERE IS NO PACIFIST MOVEMENT in Europe - there is a JUSTICE movement. If Iraq invades Kuwait - THAT'S WRONG If the UK invades Iraq - THAT'S WRONG If a Palestinian straps on bombs and kills innocent people - THAT'S WRONG If an Israeli warplane bombs a civilian appartment block - THAT'S WRONG. That's the concensus that is gaining momentum - that justice is universal and not determined by the victor or the most powerful. And the more it gains a foothold in the european psyche, the more proud I am to be european.

Oh that's rich. The Europeans are the victors of world history. So they are prescribing what "justice" is universal and what isn't. Nothing ever changes. Let me put this to you.

If Serbs kill Muslism genocidally and Europe does nothing to prevent it (relying on America), that's wrong.
If Nazis kill Jews and Europe does nothing (relying on America) that's wrong.
If Sunnis kill Kurds and Europe does nothing that's wrong.


Europeans:
Wiped out the Tasmanian aborigine, perpetuated slavery, and in 100 years reduced the South American Amerindian population from 25 million to around 2 million. Massive genocide is wrong.

What happened to the Celt, the Lapp, the Basque and the Sorb? Europeans have the worst guilt on the planet Skunk. Europeans humiliating China (Hong Kong), creating apartheid in South Africa, partitioning India, creating Palestine, Iraq, Kuwait and Jordan...

the list goes on.

The would have been no Iraq-Kuwait war, if Britain hadn't kept the little slice of oil rich Kuwait seperate from Iraq. Doing so was wrong. Britain and Russia's political and economic carving up of Persia is unbelievably horrific. B.P. are still reaping the rewards from the exploitation of the area, while the Americans are now paying for the sins of the British and Russians actions.

Mate... get your own house in order.

I think a pacifist movement would be a good thing. So would losing the preoccupation with being no.1 [/QUOTE]Hooray! Yorick is finally getting the message - countries that have behaved badly and reaped attrocities upon themselves in return are not only best placed to criticise countries MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES, but are also keen not to REPEAT THE MISTAKES OF THE PAST.

[Jerr Conner]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Jerr Conner: Everyone didn't unite. There were a minority that wanted to blame anyone of Middle-Eastern Descent for September 11th. I had seen quite a few online voicing as such. Therefore, we all didn't unite. Although I will agree that a majority united temporarily, up until the Iraq War.

I was speaking about global politics and the outpouring of compassion and solidarity that followed the attacks. Not a few posts on the internet.

The government of China stood side by side with the USA, France and even Iran. [/QUOTE]True enough, though it wasn't just the Internet where people openly blamed others.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Skunk: Hooray! Yorick is finally getting the message - countries that have behaved badly and reaped attrocities upon themselves in return are not only best placed to criticise countries MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES, but are also keen not to REPEAT THE MISTAKES OF THE PAST.

Like imposing their morality, values and politics, economy and attitudes on the rest of the world? Sounds like you're doing exactly what Europeans have ever done Skunk.

[Yorick]

Just let the rest of the world take care of itself Skunk. Leave the hegemony to the Americans. You guys had your turn and shaped the world into what it is. It's others turn now.

To all other Euros othe than Skunk:
I don't mean to be harsh. This is a reactionary expression against what I perceive to be "the pot calling the kettle black." Take no offense. Nothing to see here... move along.

[Timber Loftis]

Pot, who's got pot? Oh, sorry, my mistake. [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img]