"A Song of Ice and Fire" -- are these books any good?

[krunchyfrogg]

I'm loving this book. I've had a lot of stuff (real life stinks sometimes, doesn't it?) get in the way, but I'm back to reading!

I was lucky enough to notice an Appendix in the back, which is really helping me keep track of all of the characters. There really are a lot in this first book, and I can only imagine more showing up as the books progress.

I have to say, I really love the detail in each character, and not being able to easily distinguish every "good guy" or "bad guy." These characters are much more like "real" people than in many other novels I've read.

[T-D-C]

I have also started reading these books. Don't get to attached to some characters as he does kill some off.

Also don't read it to fast. He hasn't finished the series yet!!!!!

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Appendix eh! Well, that might help 'cos I'm starting to find that he's one of these dumb author's that uses words that nobody knows or understands. His sentence structure also leaves something to be desired. Sorry, I hate to crap on it but I've always been just an average reader and when I have to stumble through a book for no reason I get bored!

[Luvian]

Well, french is my first language, and I didn't have any problem with any of the words, but I read a lot...

Just be prudent with the Appendix, sometimes the description it give can spoil.

[Memnoch]

The brilliance with GRRM is that there's so much hidden meaning in his writing - even if you reread them three or four times you'll pick things up you didn't before, nothing is as it seems. He's huge on symbolism and really makes you think. And yes, he's not shy about killing off or maiming or brutalising key characters - this is gritty fantasy at its best.

Here's a non-spoiler excerpt which typifies GRRM's writing, from the POV of one of the key characters in book 1:

-----
He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.

In the dream his friends rode with him, as they had in life. Proud Martyn Cassel, Jory's father; faithful Theo Wull; Ethan Glover, who had been Brandon's squire; Ser Mark Ryswell, soft of speech and gentle of heart; the crannogman, Howland Reed; Lord Dustin on his great red stallion. Ned had known their faces as well as he knew his own once, but the years leech at a man's memories, even those he has vowed never to forget. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist.

They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life. Yet these were no ordinary three. They waited before the round tower, the red mountains of Dorne at their backs, their white cloaks blowing in the wind. And these were no shadows; their faces burned clear, even now. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips. The hilt of the greatsword Dawn poked up over his right shoulder. Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade with a whetstone. Across his white-enameled helm, the black bat of his House spread its wings. Between them stood fierce old Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.

"I looked for you on the Trident," Ned said to them.

"We were not there," Ser Gerold answered.

"Woe to the Usurper if we had been," said Ser Oswell.

"When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were."

"Far away," Ser Gerold Said, "or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells."

"I came down on Storm's End to lift the seige," Ned told them, "and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them."

"Our knees do not bend easily," said Ser Arthur Dayne.

"Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him."

"Ser Willem is a good man and true," said Ser Oswell.

"But not of the Kingsguard," Sir Gerold pointed out. "The Kingsguard does not flee."

"Then or now," said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.

"We swore a vow," explained old Ser Gerold.

Ned's wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.

"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

"No," Ned said with sadness in his voice. "Now it ends." As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. "Eddard!" she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.

From A Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin
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[Luvian]

I feel very clever since Memnoch explained the events around this scene some time ago, and I can't wait to see when it will come out.

Or if it will, it wouldn't surprise me if G.R.R. Martin just left it like that, something we can figure out as the reader, but that the character from that world never learn.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Ok, I'm going to quote a couple of lines on page 31. These are some of the things that I feel are really not necessary in a book and could at least be wirded a different way!

"And if you must wed him and bed him you will. He smiled at her. I'd let his whole khalasar fvck you if need be, sweet sister, all forty thousand men, and their horses too if that is what it took to get my army.

Unneseccary..

[Davros]

I don't see your point Variol, but if that passage offends then you better stop reading right now, cos it doesn't change. It's not a set of books for the faint hearted - he tells things pretty bluntly. Gregor's little speech at the end of the duel in the latest book is a certainly more lurid than that passage you have thrown up.

[Thoran]

Originally posted by Variol (Farseer) Elmwood: Ok, I'm going to quote a couple of lines on page 31. These are some of the things that I feel are really not necessary in a book and could at least be wirded a different way! "And if you must wed him and bed him you will. He smiled at her. I'd let his whole khalasar fvck you if need be, sweet sister, all forty thousand men, and their horses too if that is what it took to get my army. Unneseccary..

I agree with Davros... Martin's characters are as real as any I've ever read in a Fantasy novel, and you're going to run into MANY situations that will be as offensive as the above paragraph. Real people do and say things that are barbaric and inhumane, and so do Martin's. Certainly these books aren't for everyone, it's not light reading. A lot of people read fantasy for the uplifting stories, they want good vs. evil, the high epic form. Martin won't give you that, so I think his style definitely will turn off a lot of readers.

[Luvian]

Usually when I recomend G.R.R. Martin I tell people it's a "dark" world, with shade of gray. I think I've forgotten to mention it recently.