Imoen Same-Sex Romance - Page 4

Helspanth · 02-16-2002, 10:36 PM

@Tancred
Regarding the romance it would seem that it is just a point of perspective.I see Irenicus one way you another!

I think that Galadria sees it my way,although that does not mean by any means that yours is wrong!
As some people who hate Aerie or Anomen or(...) for the same reasons that some others like them.Both right.

Tancred · 02-16-2002, 10:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Helspanth:
@Tancred
Regarding the romance it would seem that it is just a point of perspective.I see Irenicus one way you another!
I think that Galadria sees it my way,although that does not mean by any means that yours is wrong!
As some people who hate Aerie or Anomen or(...) for the same reasons that some others like them.Both right.

Except for the guy who wrote that BG2 novel, of course.

Helspanth · 02-16-2002, 10:59 PM

I haven't read the novel,so I don't get your point.
Care to elaborate?

Memnoch · 02-16-2002, 11:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Feyd:

Thanks for making that comment Memnoch. I removed one of my replies because someone thought I was too loud. Sorry, I had my keyboard set to "Caps Lock". I was not intentionally being loud, so I removed that "loud" comment. I felt I was being dissed. P.S. - Thanks for helping out the newbie who had a question about "Viconia, Saravok, Anamon, and other minor issues etc." You seem to appear at the right moment, like an Overseer.

[ 02-16-2002: Message edited by: Feyd ]

That's what I'm here for.

Bahamut · 02-17-2002, 03:13 AM

Same sex romance? Or incestual romance? I mean if it was same sex, then it would be chick and Imoen right? It seems to me that peeps refer to at (character) as a man... I have no objections. I loove Imoen

Anyways, don't tell me she got raped... I am already very, very pissed at irenicus for stealing both our souls, and rape in my book is more hideous and painful than death itself...

Galadria · 02-17-2002, 09:09 AM

Tancred, I think that Helspanth hit the nail on the head. I see Irenicus as using Imoen like a laboratory animal, doing anything to her that he can to her to harrow her soul from her body. He mentions that she has such a happy little soul that he has to do awful things to her to break her spirit, and rape would certainly be such a thing. We do know that he had a sexual side, witness the dryads and the clones of Elleshera. You know, rape is a crime of violence and control, not passion. My friend that is doing the programming came to the same conclusion, based on the movie where he puts his arm around her shoulders. There is a dialog between the protagonist and Immy when she tells her sister this, right after the protagonist sleeps with her the first time. She also later, in Suldanessar, speaks of how beautiful the elfin city is, and how Irenicus has fouled it by his touch, just as he did her.

Whailor · 02-18-2002, 04:34 AM

Well, whaddya know, I am gone for day or two and stuff's going on..

Well, first of all, about Anomen/Aerie/Viconia - no one asks anyone to love them. So Galadria doesn't like Anomen, good, go on. I am not a fan of his either and can do without him in a party rather well as well. But I neither like whining Aerie or twisted Viconia. These 2 are on the same step of the ladder as Anomen. Everyone twisted in their own weird way, and none needed really at all. But, there's no point to try to elevate Aerie or Viconia, telling that "we understand them" and not to try to understand anyone other. These two haven't had it anyway harder then anyone else.

As for Irenicus - then I still say what I said before - he would not rape Imoen as was put here, because he simply didn't care about that or about Imoen. To Irenicus Imoen and EVERYONE else was just that, lowly life form to experiment upon, nothing. Do you really think that he would then fall so low and do all what you said he did? Nope. Bodhi as such is different and her "games" would perhaps include quite different things that of Irenicus, but ole Jon would not ever fall as low as to mess with Imoen. Imoen (and the PC player in BG2 and his friends) are tools to him, just that. They are something to experiment upon, and then throw away. He did love Ellesime once, as briefly as it was perhaps, but don't think that he would mess with any other woman after that. In a way he still 'feel's something towards Ellesime, though it's not a love anymore.

And Tanoch Thas'ala - I don't care about your 'yawns' really. You haven't yet wrote anything useful regarding this either, it's all one 'yawn' so far to me as well.

[ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: Whailor ]

Memnoch · 02-18-2002, 04:58 AM

Actually Galadria, serious question: how are you getting around the moralities of it? I know that Imoen and the PC are half-siblings, but it's a topic which some people *might* find morally questionable (not the lesbianism which is touchy enough, but the sibling romance which might make some people uncomfortable. Or am I asking for a spoiler here?

Whailor · 02-18-2002, 06:17 AM

As Memnoch put it.. I don't mind the female-to-female love thing, as it's a part of the world anyway and heck, who am I to tell as to whom love and whom not

I personally don't mind that.

But one of the reason why I personally wont try this out is also the said fact: Imoen, to me anyway, in BG games is like the sister. Doesn't matter that we had different mothers, or the father was a god. God or no god, he's a father to both of us, Imoen's a sister to me, just as Sarevok was a brother and all these other... "relatives" (pertty messy family, like Adams family heh). And well, I don't romance my sister.

Of course, this may not be the issue to those who never played BG1, so the 'backstory' doesn't exist to them perhaps and they don't mind. I though played through BG1 and there's the reason.

Galadria · 02-18-2002, 09:10 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Memnoch:
Actually Galadria, serious question: how are you getting around the moralities of it? I know that Imoen and the PC are half-siblings, but it's a topic which some people *might* find morally questionable (not the lesbianism which is touchy enough, but the sibling romance which might make some people uncomfortable. Or am I asking for a spoiler here?

Memmie, the way that I (and the guy that started it) get around the morality is that, first of all, Imoen is drawn to the character not just through suppressed sexuality-she's scared and confused and having nightmares. She just wants to sleep with her trusted friend, whom she has just realised that she is sisters with. Women do that, you know, to a much greater extent than men do. She gradualy begins to depend on this, to the extent that other members of the party notice. For example, if they are still sleeping together to one certain point, Jahiera says(I just worked this out this weekend):
GG Jahiera: "(character), there is something that we must discuss.
1. "(sigh) What is it this time, Jahiera?">>Go to dialog screen GGb
2 "Jahiera, I really enjoy these little chats that we have, but is this the time, I ask you?>> Go to dialog screen GGc

GGb Jahiera: "I have noticed that, since we rescued her, Imoen has not left your side except to scout ahead, and she still shares your bedroll. Surely, between us all, we could make her up one."
1. "Perhaps you are right, Jahiera. We shall do that, and she can sleep apart from now on.>> go to dialog screen GGd
2. "Jahiera, I don't really see how that is any of your concern. Back off.' >> go to dialog screen GGe

GGc Jahiera: "Later is is, then, oh great leader, but the matter is of some concern to me." (dialog ends)

GGd Imoen: "What do you mean, sleep apart? (character), I just couldn't do that now. I'd have nightmares. I wouldn't sleep, and then I wouldn't be good for anything."
1. "All right, Imoen, you can still sleep with me." >>go to dialog screen GGf
2. "No, Imoen, Jahiera is right. You need to sleep on your own. >> romance terminates.

GGe Jahiera: "It is unnatural for females to sleep together for such a long period. Imoen should be learning to sleep apart. After all, she will not always have you to cuddle with."
1. "Perhaps you are right, Jahiera. Imoen, you must learn to sleep apart from me from now on." >>go to dialog screen GGd
2. "Look, Jahiera, I know that we go way back, but my sleeping arrangements are my own. Keep that Harper nose to yourself, and kindly mind your own business." >> go to dialog screen GGg
3. "Jahiera, as far as I'm concerned, Imoen can stay with me for the rest of her life." >> go to dialog screen GGg
GGf Imoen: "Oh, thank you, (character). You don't know what that means to me." >> end dialog

GGg. Jahiera: "Hmmmph. Well, I guess that I can tell where your tastes lie. >> end dialog

And, it gradually becomes sexual. About the morality. Well, they are half sisters at best, and I don't think that they plan on having any children. Believe me, Lesbian sisters do exist in the real world. I have known them.

02-16-2002, 10:36 PM	#31
Helspanth Quintesson Join Date: January 21, 2002 Location: Thessaloniki,Hellas Age: 44 Posts: 1,050	@Tancred Regarding the romance it would seem that it is just a point of perspective.I see Irenicus one way you another! I think that Galadria sees it my way,although that does not mean by any means that yours is wrong! As some people who hate Aerie or Anomen or(...) for the same reasons that some others like them.Both right. __________________ \"Sorrow is the future tense of love\"

02-16-2002, 10:56 PM	#32
Tancred White Dragon Join Date: April 1, 2001 Location: UK Age: 45 Posts: 1,893	quote: Originally posted by Helspanth: @Tancred Regarding the romance it would seem that it is just a point of perspective.I see Irenicus one way you another! I think that Galadria sees it my way,although that does not mean by any means that yours is wrong! As some people who hate Aerie or Anomen or(...) for the same reasons that some others like them.Both right. Except for the guy who wrote that BG2 novel, of course. __________________ \"HELP! I\'ve superglued myself to a flaming bowling ball!\"

02-16-2002, 10:59 PM	#33
Helspanth Quintesson Join Date: January 21, 2002 Location: Thessaloniki,Hellas Age: 44 Posts: 1,050	I haven't read the novel,so I don't get your point. Care to elaborate? __________________ \"Sorrow is the future tense of love\"

02-16-2002, 11:26 PM	#34
Memnoch Ironworks Moderator Join Date: February 28, 2001 Location: Boston/Sydney Posts: 11,771	quote: Originally posted by Feyd: Thanks for making that comment Memnoch. I removed one of my replies because someone thought I was too loud. Sorry, I had my keyboard set to "Caps Lock". I was not intentionally being loud, so I removed that "loud" comment. I felt I was being dissed. P.S. - Thanks for helping out the newbie who had a question about "Viconia, Saravok, Anamon, and other minor issues etc." You seem to appear at the right moment, like an Overseer. [ 02-16-2002: Message edited by: Feyd ] That's what I'm here for. __________________

02-17-2002, 03:13 AM	#35
Bahamut Iron Throne Cult Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Manila, Philippines Age: 40 Posts: 4,864	Same sex romance? Or incestual romance? I mean if it was same sex, then it would be chick and Imoen right? It seems to me that peeps refer to at (character) as a man... I have no objections. I loove Imoen Anyways, don't tell me she got raped... I am already very, very pissed at irenicus for stealing both our souls, and rape in my book is more hideous and painful than death itself... __________________ http://makeallthedifference.blogspot.com http://www.bratgirlcentral.com/cgi-b.../ikonboard.cgi

02-17-2002, 09:09 AM	#36
Galadria 20th Level Warrior Join Date: November 3, 2001 Location: Texas Age: 55 Posts: 2,830	Tancred, I think that Helspanth hit the nail on the head. I see Irenicus as using Imoen like a laboratory animal, doing anything to her that he can to her to harrow her soul from her body. He mentions that she has such a happy little soul that he has to do awful things to her to break her spirit, and rape would certainly be such a thing. We do know that he had a sexual side, witness the dryads and the clones of Elleshera. You know, rape is a crime of violence and control, not passion. My friend that is doing the programming came to the same conclusion, based on the movie where he puts his arm around her shoulders. There is a dialog between the protagonist and Immy when she tells her sister this, right after the protagonist sleeps with her the first time. She also later, in Suldanessar, speaks of how beautiful the elfin city is, and how Irenicus has fouled it by his touch, just as he did her. __________________ Lady Galadria,Goddess\' Equal of the O.R.T.; [img]\"http://havak.db-forge.com/portraits/bitmaps/wlf180L.bmp\" alt=\" - \" /><br />\"Romance at short notice was her specialty.\" - Saki <br />Founder of the IW Branch of the Anti-Anomen Society

02-18-2002, 04:34 AM	#37
Whailor Avatar Join Date: May 16, 2001 Location: Estonia Posts: 532	Well, whaddya know, I am gone for day or two and stuff's going on.. Well, first of all, about Anomen/Aerie/Viconia - no one asks anyone to love them. So Galadria doesn't like Anomen, good, go on. I am not a fan of his either and can do without him in a party rather well as well. But I neither like whining Aerie or twisted Viconia. These 2 are on the same step of the ladder as Anomen. Everyone twisted in their own weird way, and none needed really at all. But, there's no point to try to elevate Aerie or Viconia, telling that "we understand them" and not to try to understand anyone other. These two haven't had it anyway harder then anyone else. As for Irenicus - then I still say what I said before - he would not rape Imoen as was put here, because he simply didn't care about that or about Imoen. To Irenicus Imoen and EVERYONE else was just that, lowly life form to experiment upon, nothing. Do you really think that he would then fall so low and do all what you said he did? Nope. Bodhi as such is different and her "games" would perhaps include quite different things that of Irenicus, but ole Jon would not ever fall as low as to mess with Imoen. Imoen (and the PC player in BG2 and his friends) are tools to him, just that. They are something to experiment upon, and then throw away. He did love Ellesime once, as briefly as it was perhaps, but don't think that he would mess with any other woman after that. In a way he still 'feel's something towards Ellesime, though it's not a love anymore. And Tanoch Thas'ala - I don't care about your 'yawns' really. You haven't yet wrote anything useful regarding this either, it's all one 'yawn' so far to me as well. [ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: Whailor ] __________________

02-18-2002, 04:58 AM	#38
Memnoch Ironworks Moderator Join Date: February 28, 2001 Location: Boston/Sydney Posts: 11,771	Actually Galadria, serious question: how are you getting around the moralities of it? I know that Imoen and the PC are half-siblings, but it's a topic which some people might find morally questionable (not the lesbianism which is touchy enough, but the sibling romance which might make some people uncomfortable. Or am I asking for a spoiler here? __________________

02-18-2002, 06:17 AM	#39
Whailor Avatar Join Date: May 16, 2001 Location: Estonia Posts: 532	As Memnoch put it.. I don't mind the female-to-female love thing, as it's a part of the world anyway and heck, who am I to tell as to whom love and whom not I personally don't mind that. But one of the reason why I personally wont try this out is also the said fact: Imoen, to me anyway, in BG games is like the sister. Doesn't matter that we had different mothers, or the father was a god. God or no god, he's a father to both of us, Imoen's a sister to me, just as Sarevok was a brother and all these other... "relatives" (pertty messy family, like Adams family heh). And well, I don't romance my sister. Of course, this may not be the issue to those who never played BG1, so the 'backstory' doesn't exist to them perhaps and they don't mind. I though played through BG1 and there's the reason. __________________

02-18-2002, 09:10 AM	#40
Galadria 20th Level Warrior Join Date: November 3, 2001 Location: Texas Age: 55 Posts: 2,830	quote: Originally posted by Memnoch: Actually Galadria, serious question: how are you getting around the moralities of it? I know that Imoen and the PC are half-siblings, but it's a topic which some people might find morally questionable (not the lesbianism which is touchy enough, but the sibling romance which might make some people uncomfortable. Or am I asking for a spoiler here? Memmie, the way that I (and the guy that started it) get around the morality is that, first of all, Imoen is drawn to the character not just through suppressed sexuality-she's scared and confused and having nightmares. She just wants to sleep with her trusted friend, whom she has just realised that she is sisters with. Women do that, you know, to a much greater extent than men do. She gradualy begins to depend on this, to the extent that other members of the party notice. For example, if they are still sleeping together to one certain point, Jahiera says(I just worked this out this weekend): GG Jahiera: "(character), there is something that we must discuss. 1. "(sigh) What is it this time, Jahiera?">>Go to dialog screen GGb 2 "Jahiera, I really enjoy these little chats that we have, but is this the time, I ask you?>> Go to dialog screen GGc GGb Jahiera: "I have noticed that, since we rescued her, Imoen has not left your side except to scout ahead, and she still shares your bedroll. Surely, between us all, we could make her up one." 1. "Perhaps you are right, Jahiera. We shall do that, and she can sleep apart from now on.>> go to dialog screen GGd 2. "Jahiera, I don't really see how that is any of your concern. Back off.' >> go to dialog screen GGe GGc Jahiera: "Later is is, then, oh great leader, but the matter is of some concern to me." (dialog ends) GGd Imoen: "What do you mean, sleep apart? (character), I just couldn't do that now. I'd have nightmares. I wouldn't sleep, and then I wouldn't be good for anything." 1. "All right, Imoen, you can still sleep with me." >>go to dialog screen GGf 2. "No, Imoen, Jahiera is right. You need to sleep on your own. >> romance terminates. GGe Jahiera: "It is unnatural for females to sleep together for such a long period. Imoen should be learning to sleep apart. After all, she will not always have you to cuddle with." 1. "Perhaps you are right, Jahiera. Imoen, you must learn to sleep apart from me from now on." >>go to dialog screen GGd 2. "Look, Jahiera, I know that we go way back, but my sleeping arrangements are my own. Keep that Harper nose to yourself, and kindly mind your own business." >> go to dialog screen GGg 3. "Jahiera, as far as I'm concerned, Imoen can stay with me for the rest of her life." >> go to dialog screen GGg GGf Imoen: "Oh, thank you, (character). You don't know what that means to me." >> end dialog GGg. Jahiera: "Hmmmph. Well, I guess that I can tell where your tastes lie. >> end dialog And, it gradually becomes sexual. About the morality. Well, they are half sisters at best, and I don't think that they plan on having any children. Believe me, Lesbian sisters do exist in the real world. I have known them. __________________ Lady Galadria,Goddess\' Equal of the O.R.T.; [img]\"http://havak.db-forge.com/portraits/bitmaps/wlf180L.bmp\" alt=\" - \" /><br />\"Romance at short notice was her specialty.\" - Saki <br />Founder of the IW Branch of the Anti-Anomen Society

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