Worst Clas there is

[Bill26]

I'm not talking about mages in the game. They are not scripted for maximum kill. If you want to test my theory you need to duel another person running the mage. I personally don't use all of the tools available to me because I don't think they are realistic. I use a contingency for stoneskin and spell triggers for a little extra firepower, but not chain contingencies setup for specific battles.

I have an idea for Dundee that may help resolve this. I'll start a new thread.

[Alson]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: OR....Cast Time Stop and then use Imprisonment, Maze, Maze (or some such combination if you have it). That way, I'm having to make several Resistance checks and Saves vs spell.

One problem though - Imprisonment ignores both Magic Resistance AND Saves. Yep, it's a broken spell, no doubt.

As for the Mage vs. Fighter debate, it is certainly fun. I'm on the Arcane side, here - the Mage just have better defense (have i mentioned the Pro-Normal-Weapons and Pro-Magic-Weapons can be stacked using a Sequencer?) and better offense (have i mentioned Imprisonment? Why, yes, i think i have... [img]tongue.gif[/img] ).

It is a never ending discussion - you'll swig a Potion of Invisibility, i'll use a PfNW + PfMW + True Sight Spell Trigger. You'll use a Pro-Magic scrolls, i'll stay Invisible for the duration, and will cast Spell Immunity : Divination if you got lucky with the Book of Infinite Spells, etc... Eventually, the Mage will get tired from this endless game, and will cast Project Image.
Oh well... 'Twas a fun 'lil exercise!

I would be happy to continue this if you're interested.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

There really isn't a need for a new thread, Bill26 - I already have the perfect thread set-up on the Roleplaying Forum.

It is called the Octagon and is specifically designed for PnP characters to face each other in single combat.

In all fairness, I would have to "tone down" my PnP version of Cerek. He has an UBER amount of Magic Resistance gained from an artifact. To be honost, no legit DM I know would let me actually use the MR as is in a game.

Here's my proposition for you. I will ask the DM's from my old group what amount of MR would be "fair" to keep. You do the work up on your mage and then we can face each other in the Octagon.

Cyril Darkcloud is very familiar with my Arena and how it is run, so he could do the actual "DM"ing of the fight if you wish. Or if you prefer, Dundee could be the DM if he is willing to do it.

Let me know if you're interested. You can send me a PM (if it's working) or an e-mail and I will provide details of how the arena works. I think it would be a lot of fun regardless of who wins.

[Bill26]

I think Alson or Dundee would be a better opponent and I think PnP is different than BG2.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

BG2 is based on the PnP rules (2nd Edition), but I saw your other thread and that will work for me. Just send me the details of how to get my character to meet this wizard when he's ready and we'll see what happens.

[slicer15]

Well, on the mage v wizard slayer fight i'm only on the arcane side because I love mages! They really do get more powerful at higher levels, and the thing is, in the Forgotten Realms books or games, mages are considered very powerful. In one of these games, people get scared because ONE mage is backing a rival thieves guild. Only ONE mage, so that shows how well they are respected outside gameplay, in the "real" forgotten realms world.

Relating to the original question, I have to say the fighter is the most boring. I had a human fighter once, I didn't dual class, and boy nothing happened at all as he levelled up, no new abilities, nothing.

[ 12-19-2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: slicer15 ]

[Zuvio]

Plus.....I have a littl "ace in the hole" that I haven't mentioned - an item I downloaded from Arundor's Abode called Charon's Claw. It's a sword and gauntlet combo. The sword causes disease with each hit (but is only +2, so I never actually use it). The gauntlets, however, give me 50% Magic Resistance AND automatically "Spell Turn" any spell below 6th level. So you would end up trapped in you own sphere.

And you feel that your "ace-in-the-hole-gauntlets-of-50%MR-AND-Spell-Turning-6th-lvl-and-lower-spells" is a completely viable and balanced way of defeating a pure sorcerer? And please do tell which items you use to get your Wizard Slayer equipped with 75-80% MR.

Furthermore, if a sorc gets to fire his timestop, you're dead. And computer mages are not a point of reference.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Zuvio: quote: Plus.....I have a littl "ace in the hole" that I haven't mentioned - an item I downloaded from Arundor's Abode called Charon's Claw. It's a sword and gauntlet combo. The sword causes disease with each hit (but is only +2, so I never actually use it). The gauntlets, however, give me 50% Magic Resistance AND automatically "Spell Turn" any spell below 6th level. So you would end up trapped in you own sphere.

And you feel that your "ace-in-the-hole-gauntlets-of-50%MR-AND-Spell-Turning-6th-lvl-and-lower-spells" is a completely viable and balanced way of defeating a pure sorcerer? And please do tell which items you use to get your Wizard Slayer equipped with 75-80% MR.

Furthermore, if a sorc gets to fire his timestop, you're dead. And computer mages are not a point of reference.[/QUOTE]The Magic Resistance comes from a combination of items and class abilities. The gauntlets provide 50%MR (IIRC) and the Wizard Slayer gets 2%MR/level. I don't remember how much from these two sources is cumulative and last week was the first time I had played Cerek & Co in about 2 mos. I don't remember what his exact MR is. I'll check on it and let you know.

AFA as "considering the gauntlets fair" - yes, I do. At least as fair as the sorcerer using his Staff of the Magi and Ring of Wizadry to boost his power. And just as the mage is restricted in which items he/she can use, so is the Wizard Slayer. Armor, weapons, and healing potions......that's it. I wasn't even sure if the gauntlets would work on my character, but the game does allow it.

Besides, that seemed like an item that was custom-made for the Wizard Slayer class. It improves his MR AND grants immunity to low level spells. As you said, high-level mages are very powerful...so a Wizard Slayer needs powerful items to counter them.

I'm not really sure why "computer mages" wouldn't be considered a point of reference since we ARE talking about a computer-RPG. But if you have a PnP Sorcerer you would like me to meet, I've listed a way to do that too.

You seem to be upset by all of this for some reason, Zuvio, and I don't really understand that. It's just a game. I agree that mages ARE the most powerful class at high level. But I do NOT believe they are unbeatable. I never said it would be easy and I might end up with a mouthful of Fireball.

But I feel confident that I could eventually find a way to beat the wizard if Dundee or somebody else is kind enough to create him. And - if I don't - so what. It'll be a blast either way.

[wellard]

My money is on you CEREK!!!. Those people who doubt a wizard slayer's abilities should run one through bg2 and tob. THEN send apoligies on a postcard to this forum!
by the way any chance of watching the fight/show in the copper cornet fight pit?

[Cerek the Barbaric]

After reviewing Cerek's inventory, I found out the gloves aren't as powerful as I thought they were in one respect and more powerful in another.

They do not grant any Magic Resistance at all....so Cerek's MR is 45%. This comes straight from the Wizard Slayer kit.

However, the gauntlets automatically "spell turn" spells up to (and including) 6th level rather than 5th. So I don't really need MR for any spells below 7th level.

The sword that goes with the gloves has a chance to cause Miscast Magic and disease on each hit. As I said earlier, I never use the sword anymore...but that's only because I have weapons that are much better (like Flail of Ages).