Concerning Cheese

[Glorfindel]

Good Point..... and heres an interesting thing..... I have never layed a trap in my gaming career..... I have played the game 100's of times and I have never ever layed a trap.... not even with jan's special traps..... cause I never seem to b able to get monsters to get into them

R they good???

[Gedd]

All I want to say is that the Baldurs Gate series allow you to play roleplay games without a DM etc, etc. When i play BG2 i like to try to play it as realistic as possible (i.e. Korgan surely can;t go a week without atleast having 20 pints ).

i try not to play for an hour (game time)..rest..play an hour..rest - so that I always have a full selection of spells for each fight. Infact in my experiance the best fights i've had are when I'm down to the spells i rarely use and all my characters are half dead - thats when you have to find new ways of winning with the items you've got.

If you use cheese you are "generally" not trying to play in this way - you are trying to beat the game not "play" it as a roleplay. And there is nothing wrong with this. After all - how many times has anyone reloaded when minsc/jan etc got splattered so you can't resurrect them?

[Azred]

quote:

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Originally posted by Glorfindel:
Ok.... Ive got a qeustoin totally off ur debate...... y's it called 'Cheese'???

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Because cheese is nothing more than flavored mold (that doesn't stop me from enjoying many varieties of cheese, mind you), something that is "cheesy" is something that stinks or "doesn't smell quite right". Many invented tactics in RPGs are when some rules are bent; this stinks, hence the name "cheese".

[Sir ReGiN]

Look, all this 'cheese' business is only taking advantage of the game's lousy AI...
If a golem gets stuck in a doorway and can't reach you, it would normally leave, right?
But, in the game, the AI is set so low, that he will just try to reach you, even though he can't..
In my opinion, the game shouldn't be played in any other difficulty than max to make up for the lousy AI..
And as for if it's right or not to 'cheese', the game obviously gets easier than if you don't 'cheese', so you miss out on some great fights..
But if you don't want to go through the battles, than don't!
I don't care, and I can't see why somebody else should..
You play the game as you like it, that's whats good about it!

[LennonCook]

quote:

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Originally posted by Sir ReGiN:
Look, all this 'cheese' business is only taking advantage of the game's lousy AI...
If a golem gets stuck in a doorway and can't reach you, it would normally leave, right?

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Golems obviously get a bonus to strength, and so to balance it they must get penalties to other stats (these are used for all characters BTW)...

I would guess that since an Admantite golum gets a BIG bonus to strength and invulnerabilities, they would get heavy penalties to other areas... So lets see...

Strength obviously not a penalty.
Dex They move quite well for something that big, so no Dex penalty.
Int
Wis
Con high HP= High Con. Golums definately have high HP,
Cha They look commanding, and would definately be leaders. Thus, High Charisma.


Oh... as we can see, there are only 2 areas left for penalties to be given to...
Intelligance and Wisdom. This is why they dont move out of the doors that their stuck in!!

[Gabrial Angelfire]

id like to add that there is proof that using traps on firkragg is cheesy. If you use traps to kill him or to injure him to the point of near death you get no experience points, ii myself have done this many times. Its all in how you look at it, sometimes you can defeat a foe without using some cheese, your character is just to weak, or you could wait a little and come back to him when you are stronger. To me the first time you play anything goes, cause your learning the game and learning your foes. But the more you play the more you hold yourself to makeing the game as fun a possible. SO you use less magic, or less hit and run tactics, or doorways, you start playing the game to do everything and find new ways to do everything. The more you play the game the more you change it into a challenge, at least thats how i feel.

[Auraleus]

quote:

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Originally posted by LennonCook:


Golems obviously get a bonus to strength, and so to balance it they must get penalties to other stats (these are used for all characters BTW)...

I would guess that since an Admantite golum gets a BIG bonus to strength and invulnerabilities, they would get heavy penalties to other areas... So lets see...

Strength obviously not a penalty.
Dex They move quite well for something that big, so no Dex penalty.
Int
Wis
Con high HP= High Con. Golums definately have high HP,
Cha They look commanding, and would definately be leaders. Thus, High Charisma.


Oh... as we can see, there are only 2 areas left for penalties to be given to...
Intelligance and Wisdom. This is why they dont move out of the doors that their stuck in!!

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Iron golems fart giant poison gas clouds.... their cha is not leadership level =P

[Memnoch]

Think of it this way. Cheese is about taking advantage of a deficiency in the game's AI to gain an advantage. Give it the reality check - would it be realistic in real life? If the answer is yes, then it's not cheese. If the answer is no, then it is.

Using traps to kill Firkraag is not cheese if you set the traps at the end of the cavern and lured him there so he would set them off. It IS cheese if you set it in front of him by taking advantage of the fact that as a non-hostile he will do nothing despite the fact that you ring him with traps, sleeping for 3 days to make sure you lay enough. The former is a realistic scenario - the latter isn't. Same goes for casting Cloudkill or another AOE spell at beyond visual range and waiting until he chokes himself to death - you are taking advantage of a game limitation which prevents Firkraag from attacking you because you have not directly attacked him. Casting Cloudkill normally and killing him (and maybe you as well) is not generally considered cheese.

Here's a tougher one - casting cloudkill into a room full of monsters and shutting the door, waiting for them to choke, then opening the door again, casting, and shutting again, repeating till they've all been Baygoned. The door is NOT locked, but of course the AI doesn't allow monsters to open doors. Now you can try and justify this by saying that your characters are HOLDING the door shut, but it has the distinct smell of cheddar.

Hope that clears the definition up. Note that I didn't say anything about cheese being good or bad - it's neither.

[ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

when i was fighting firkag- for no apparent reason he decided to turn around and face the opposite way. i took no time in wipeing him out with a heavy missile barrage [img]smile.gif[/img]

[PoesRaven]

As far as Trapping Firkraag to death, it aint cheese, it serves the B****d right for being so far up himself!

P.S. Cheese isnt flavoured mould [img]tongue.gif[/img] .Some cheeses posess mould (Stilton) but it is still produced from the excretion (milk) from a cows udders. Funny cow that has mouldy ... never mind.