Favorite Pary Combos? - Page 3

Shotgun · 10-16-2003, 10:27 AM

I've pretty much just started the game (heading to Dragon's Eye next), and here's my party:

Ranger (will dual to Cleric later)--male human
Paladin--male human
Fighter/Thief (multiclass)--female half-elf
Fighter--female dwarf
Mage--male human
Cleric--female human

When do you think I should dual the Ranger? He's at level 4 or 5 now, I think.

pritchke · 10-16-2003, 10:39 AM

My preference is Level 6. Others prefer to go higher but 6 is a good time to dual.

My favorite party combo:
Fighter/Theif
Fighter/Mage (dual to mage at 6)
Fighter/Druid

[ 10-16-2003, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

Lymond · 10-16-2003, 11:40 AM

Shotgun,

The question of when to dual class was brought up a month or two ago and someone did a very detailed analysis of when is the best time in terms of the abilities you gain. I know he used the term "sweet spot" to describe the best times to dual, so if you do a search of that you should be able to find it. I think the times he determined were best were levels 6 or 9.

Pritchke,

After seeing you recommend dual classing a fighter/mage a number of times, I did it in my latest game and she is by far my best character. I love the fact that she can cast strong spells because she's leveling up quickly as a mage, but then perform equally well hand to hand. At times, I've wished my whole party was the same, except for maybe a bard as a supporting character. Have you ever done that?

Lymond

pritchke · 10-16-2003, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lymond:

Pritchke,

After seeing you recommend dual classing a fighter/mage a number of times, I did it in my latest game and she is by far my best character. I love the fact that she can cast strong spells because she's leveling up quickly as a mage, but then perform equally well hand to hand. At times, I've wished my whole party was the same, except for maybe a bard as a supporting character. Have you ever done that?

Lymond

No, I have not used that party but it would defiantly be a party to beat. Hmm!!! 5 fighters who can cast stoneskins on themselves, a bard who will heal the minor damage they take. Would you say dual 2 at level 6 than 3 at level 9 or whenever the other two get there powers back? Definitely a HoF party as the game would just be too easy. But the only problem is, would there be enough copies of spells that you like for each of them to learn? It would be nice that they all could learn stoneskin, and mirror image. Some spells turn up more then a couple times but others do not.

[ 10-16-2003, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

Shotgun · 10-16-2003, 01:21 PM

I found that previous post on dual-classing, Lymon. Thanks! I do have a couple other questions, though. After reading the post, I notice a lot of people think a bard is great. When I played BGII, bards weren't considered all that popular. I do have HoW installed. Should I switch anyone in my party to a bard? Should I consider starting over with a new party? Not entirely sure what to do here.

Next, one of my party members is a Ranger, who I planned to dual-class into a Cleric. Do Rangers get druid spells or cleric spells or both? I didn't realize druids were so cool in IWD (from what I've read), and would love to use their spells. Do I have to drop a character and create a new one to take advantage of that, or will my ranger dualled to a cleric be able to use those spells? I've never dualled a character before, so all of this is new to me.

[ 10-16-2003, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Shotgun ]

NobleNick · 10-16-2003, 03:35 PM

Shotgun,

I believe Lymond was talking about the analysis I did about a year ago. Hope you liked it. It took a while with a lot of help from old hands to sort it out.

Ther is a lot of raving about how good a Bard is in IWD. From what I undrstand, they are much more powerful and versatile than in other recent RPG games. Here is an excerpt from one of my recent posts on the subject...

************************************************** ************

The Bard: If (and only if) you have HoW installed the Bard (and the Druid) becomes a much tougher hombre. The Bard can melee a little better than a thief; but if you use him for that you are missing the point. The Bard is almost as good a magic user as a multi-classed mage. But even better than that, he can sing. Songs include tunes that give your gruop increased resistance to fear, increased resistance to sound attacks, enthrall enemies, and the BIG one: War Chant of the Sith, which gives all your party (that remain relatively close to the Bard) +2 bonus to armor class, +2 bonus to THAC0 and +2 HPs of regeneration per round. Healing up after a fight is snap with this song, so you only need to rest to regain spells and fight fatigue; and your clerics can ditch most of their "cure ___ wounds" spells and use the slots for other useful spells.

Let me put it another way: You take 3 Fighters and pit them against 2 Fighters and a Bard singing the War Chant. All 5 Fighters are, say, level 9 and have equal stats (before the Bard starts singing). Who will win? I hope you guessed it.

If the Bard has the Bardic horn of Valhalla (available for purchase in Kuldahar), then the Bard and 2 Fighters would almost certainly whip even a party of 4 equal Fighters. Don't forget that the Bard also has the capability to scribe any of the full range of all mage spells, like fireball, skull trap, magic arrow, Cone Of Cold, Ag.'s Scorcher, Lightning Bolt, oh and let's not forget Malavon's Rage. (One of my favorite tricks is to have my Bard cast Stoneskin, Mirror Image AND Blur; then sing War Chant while monsters pound harmlessly on her... and the fighters pound mercilessly on the monsters!) Yes, If I had to pick one of these parties to duel with another experienced player, I would certainly want to enter the fight running the Bard's smaller party. And the Bard would never draw a weapon. That's why I say:

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

P.S. Not that I'm recommending a party with fewer "fighters" (Fighters, Paladins, Rangers, Druids, etc.): A Bard is best in a Fighter-heavy party, since the effect of her songs are multiplied by the greater number of Fighters who can take advantage of them.

Lymond · 10-20-2003, 05:11 PM

NobleNick,

Yes, that was your analysis now that I think of it. I didn't remember it was you because I didn't really "know" you at the time. That was a big help.

Pritchke,

I would definitely split some at six and some at nine. I had never dual classed before, so I was very anxious to do so and then did at six. Now that I'm much past that, I wish I had waited. I've also never tried HoF, so I think that's next on the list.

Shotgun,

I never thought I'd like a bard so much. A character that doesn't fight?! I'm a beleiver now, though. I'm not a big fan of the ranger, although I do have a ranger/cleric. The first time I played a ranger I think I had his enemy as a goblin, which you don't see enough in the game. This time I made the prime enemy a skeletal undead and it's been much more useful. With the right weapon, she frequently crushes skeletons in one blow. As far as killing off one of the team, I don't like to do that, because I feel like I wasted the experience points. However, better that than to be stuck later with a weak party. If you are planning to dual class the ranget to cleric, then I would get rid of the full cleric and play a bard instead.

Lymond

NobleNick · 10-20-2003, 06:58 PM

Lymond,

Yeah, it is hard to hold out that long, isn't it? When I first started I thought I'd never make it. But it is well worth it (especially if your party is headed to HoW/TotLM).

I hold out for level 9 to get that next proficiency point. Also, you pick up something else at level 7 ( +1/2 Attack Per Round, IIRC). The exra 3 levels of HP gain at a Fighter's rate (12HP/level, including the high CON bonus, IIRC) don't hurt either. The only reason I don't hold everyone til 9 is that then I've got this huge dry spell with no Fighters; so I DC one of them early (or late!).

In one of my parties, destined for HoW and TotLM, I am honestly still contemplating DCing one Fighter to Mage at Fighter 9 and holding the other until Fighter 12 or 13 (I think you get another 1/2 APR at level 13). The expo is definitely available to build and get good play out of a character like this. And, I love watching these characters level up once per fight after the DC!

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party on!!

[ 10-20-2003, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

Shotgun · 10-21-2003, 10:15 AM

Hmm, that sounds interesting actually. I'll definitely have to consider a Bard next time. I did go back and start again with a slightly new party. I kept four of my characters--the Paladin, the Ranger, the Mage, and the dwarven fighter--and created two new ones--a Fighter/Druid and a halfling Fighter/Thief. I definitely prefer the new characters to the older two I had. I've also dualled my Ranger now. Since he was already at level 5 when I started over, it didn't take long to get him to level 7. I'm now starting the third level of Dragon's Eye and he's already at level 5 for a cleric, so it won't be long before I can use his fighting skills again.

I'm enjoying the game, though, so will probably try a bard the next time around. They certainly sound intriguing and there are some nice little trinkets I can pick up in Kuldahar! Thanks, everyone!

NobleNick · 10-21-2003, 02:11 PM

Shotgun,

Neither Lymond nor I really addressed your Dual Class (DC) question.

The best advice I could give at this point is to do a test DC on your character as soon as you get to level 2, to ensure you will be able to DC when you really want to.

Edit: Oh, and you should get lots of enjoyment out of your Fighter/Druid if you build him right!

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party on!!

[ 10-23-2003, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

10-16-2003, 11:40 AM	#23
Lymond Manshoon Join Date: February 6, 2003 Location: Boston, MA Age: 56 Posts: 175	Shotgun, The question of when to dual class was brought up a month or two ago and someone did a very detailed analysis of when is the best time in terms of the abilities you gain. I know he used the term "sweet spot" to describe the best times to dual, so if you do a search of that you should be able to find it. I think the times he determined were best were levels 6 or 9. Pritchke, After seeing you recommend dual classing a fighter/mage a number of times, I did it in my latest game and she is by far my best character. I love the fact that she can cast strong spells because she's leveling up quickly as a mage, but then perform equally well hand to hand. At times, I've wished my whole party was the same, except for maybe a bard as a supporting character. Have you ever done that? Lymond __________________ Hard work pays off in the long run. Laziness pays off right now.

10-20-2003, 05:11 PM	#27
Lymond Manshoon Join Date: February 6, 2003 Location: Boston, MA Age: 56 Posts: 175	NobleNick, Yes, that was your analysis now that I think of it. I didn't remember it was you because I didn't really "know" you at the time. That was a big help. Pritchke, I would definitely split some at six and some at nine. I had never dual classed before, so I was very anxious to do so and then did at six. Now that I'm much past that, I wish I had waited. I've also never tried HoF, so I think that's next on the list. Shotgun, I never thought I'd like a bard so much. A character that doesn't fight?! I'm a beleiver now, though. I'm not a big fan of the ranger, although I do have a ranger/cleric. The first time I played a ranger I think I had his enemy as a goblin, which you don't see enough in the game. This time I made the prime enemy a skeletal undead and it's been much more useful. With the right weapon, she frequently crushes skeletons in one blow. As far as killing off one of the team, I don't like to do that, because I feel like I wasted the experience points. However, better that than to be stuck later with a weak party. If you are planning to dual class the ranget to cleric, then I would get rid of the full cleric and play a bard instead. Lymond __________________ Hard work pays off in the long run. Laziness pays off right now.

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10-16-2003, 10:27 AM	#21
Shotgun Manshoon Join Date: August 4, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 50 Posts: 180	I've pretty much just started the game (heading to Dragon's Eye next), and here's my party: Ranger (will dual to Cleric later)--male human Paladin--male human Fighter/Thief (multiclass)--female half-elf Fighter--female dwarf Mage--male human Cleric--female human When do you think I should dual the Ranger? He's at level 4 or 5 now, I think.

10-16-2003, 10:39 AM	#22
pritchke Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: September 5, 2001 Location: Calgary, AB Age: 50 Posts: 3,491	My preference is Level 6. Others prefer to go higher but 6 is a good time to dual. My favorite party combo: Fighter/Theif Fighter/Mage (dual to mage at 6) Fighter/Druid [ 10-16-2003, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

10-16-2003, 01:21 PM	#25
Shotgun Manshoon Join Date: August 4, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 50 Posts: 180	I found that previous post on dual-classing, Lymon. Thanks! I do have a couple other questions, though. After reading the post, I notice a lot of people think a bard is great. When I played BGII, bards weren't considered all that popular. I do have HoW installed. Should I switch anyone in my party to a bard? Should I consider starting over with a new party? Not entirely sure what to do here. Next, one of my party members is a Ranger, who I planned to dual-class into a Cleric. Do Rangers get druid spells or cleric spells or both? I didn't realize druids were so cool in IWD (from what I've read), and would love to use their spells. Do I have to drop a character and create a new one to take advantage of that, or will my ranger dualled to a cleric be able to use those spells? I've never dualled a character before, so all of this is new to me. [ 10-16-2003, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Shotgun ]

10-16-2003, 03:35 PM	#26
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	Shotgun, I believe Lymond was talking about the analysis I did about a year ago. Hope you liked it. It took a while with a lot of help from old hands to sort it out. Ther is a lot of raving about how good a Bard is in IWD. From what I undrstand, they are much more powerful and versatile than in other recent RPG games. Here is an excerpt from one of my recent posts on the subject... ************************************************ ******** The Bard: If (and only if) you have HoW installed the Bard (and the Druid) becomes a much tougher hombre. The Bard can melee a little better than a thief; but if you use him for that you are missing the point. The Bard is almost as good a magic user as a multi-classed mage. But even better than that, he can sing. Songs include tunes that give your gruop increased resistance to fear, increased resistance to sound attacks, enthrall enemies, and the BIG** one: War Chant of the Sith, which gives all your party (that remain relatively close to the Bard) +2 bonus to armor class, +2 bonus to THAC0 and +2 HPs of regeneration per round. Healing up after a fight is snap with this song, so you only need to rest to regain spells and fight fatigue; and your clerics can ditch most of their "cure ___ wounds" spells and use the slots for other useful spells. Let me put it another way: You take 3 Fighters and pit them against 2 Fighters and a Bard singing the War Chant. All 5 Fighters are, say, level 9 and have equal stats (before the Bard starts singing). Who will win? I hope you guessed it. If the Bard has the Bardic horn of Valhalla (available for purchase in Kuldahar), then the Bard and 2 Fighters would almost certainly whip even a party of 4 equal Fighters. Don't forget that the Bard also has the capability to scribe any of the full range of all mage spells, like fireball, skull trap, magic arrow, Cone Of Cold, Ag.'s Scorcher, Lightning Bolt, oh and let's not forget Malavon's Rage. (One of my favorite tricks is to have my Bard cast Stoneskin, Mirror Image AND Blur; then sing War Chant while monsters pound harmlessly on her... and the fighters pound mercilessly on the monsters!) Yes, If I had to pick one of these parties to duel with another experienced player, I would certainly want to enter the fight running the Bard's smaller party. And the Bard would never draw a weapon. That's why I say: What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!! P.S. Not that I'm recommending a party with fewer "fighters" (Fighters, Paladins, Rangers, Druids, etc.): A Bard is best in a Fighter-heavy party, since the effect of her songs are multiplied by the greater number of Fighters who can take advantage of them.

10-20-2003, 06:58 PM	#28
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	Lymond, Yeah, it is hard to hold out that long, isn't it? When I first started I thought I'd never make it. But it is well worth it (especially if your party is headed to HoW/TotLM). I hold out for level 9 to get that next proficiency point. Also, you pick up something else at level 7 ( +1/2 Attack Per Round, IIRC). The exra 3 levels of HP gain at a Fighter's rate (12HP/level, including the high CON bonus, IIRC) don't hurt either. The only reason I don't hold everyone til 9 is that then I've got this huge dry spell with no Fighters; so I DC one of them early (or late!). In one of my parties, destined for HoW and TotLM, I am honestly still contemplating DCing one Fighter to Mage at Fighter 9 and holding the other until Fighter 12 or 13 (I think you get another 1/2 APR at level 13). The expo is definitely available to build and get good play out of a character like this. And, I love watching these characters level up once per fight after the DC! What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party on!! [ 10-20-2003, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

10-21-2003, 10:15 AM	#29
Shotgun Manshoon Join Date: August 4, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 50 Posts: 180	Hmm, that sounds interesting actually. I'll definitely have to consider a Bard next time. I did go back and start again with a slightly new party. I kept four of my characters--the Paladin, the Ranger, the Mage, and the dwarven fighter--and created two new ones--a Fighter/Druid and a halfling Fighter/Thief. I definitely prefer the new characters to the older two I had. I've also dualled my Ranger now. Since he was already at level 5 when I started over, it didn't take long to get him to level 7. I'm now starting the third level of Dragon's Eye and he's already at level 5 for a cleric, so it won't be long before I can use his fighting skills again. I'm enjoying the game, though, so will probably try a bard the next time around. They certainly sound intriguing and there are some nice little trinkets I can pick up in Kuldahar! Thanks, everyone!

10-21-2003, 02:11 PM	#30
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	Shotgun, Neither Lymond nor I really addressed your Dual Class (DC) question. The best advice I could give at this point is to do a test DC on your character as soon as you get to level 2, to ensure you will be able to DC when you really want to. Edit: Oh, and you should get lots of enjoyment out of your Fighter/Druid if you build him right! What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party on!! [ 10-23-2003, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

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