Decisions, decisions...

[Gangrell]

Originally posted by Pirengle: I'm with Xen on this one. I think people are letting Viconia's, erm, other talents, cloud their judgment. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Why Pirengle, whatever do you mean? [img]graemlins/showoff.gif[/img]

[Borg]

1. The debate of Anomen vs. Viccy has left out one important thing: Her Magic Resistance.

2. I must admit that I haven't played with Anomen in my party, but like BaRoN NiGhT I'm also partial to more pure-classed characters. I think a balanced party of pure-classed characters would kick the snot out of any party with equivalent experience that has multi- and/or dual-classed characters (and that doesn't include Vicy's other talents). (Although, relative to Viccy and Anomen, I admit this point is weakened by Dundee's argument).

3. The usefulness of Holy Smite has less to do with whether you have a good or neutral Anomen or Evil Viccy in your party. They both can cast it (although Viccy might also get hit by it -- see Point 1 above, though). The crux is whether or not the rest of the party will feel the damage, and that has everything to do with the party's alignment, not Anomen or Viccy. Note: I forget exactly how Holy Word works and if Viccy would be able to cast it, so I left it out of this point.

[IronDragon]

Viconia’s 18 wisdom results in a total of two extra spells, fourth level I think. Big whoop.

I have always found her to be as annoying as Anomen if not more so. She is just as rude and obnoxious. She is also a bossy slut (trust me, she doing the nasty with Minsc behind your back, and liking it too.)

Her presence hurts and limits your reputation.

With Anomen you have the opportunity to make him into a better person, he can actually change for the better and from a role-playing standpoint that counts a lot more than cup-size.

Originally posted by Gangrell: How can people say that Anomen is better than Viconia? He may be a fighter, but give Viconia Crom Faeyr and she becomes a machine

And how is this an improvement over giving Anomen Crom Faeyr? Prior to building the hammer (which happens very late in the game) what are you supposed to do with her? For her to be of any use (When you get her she isn’t even strong enough to use a shield) you have to spend a huge chunk of money to get the Girdle of Stone Giant Strength, I would rather save strength enhancing items for tanks and frontline warriors.

[JrKASperov]

On A vs. V:

more attacks and more proficiencies FAR overweigh being pure class...

ApR is just THE skill.. without it, forget being a fighter, just prepare for casting uses.

[Gangrell]

The only, the only advantage of having Anomen is mainly because he has more attacks per round but thats it. Viconia gets more spells for a cleric, she has a very high Magic Resistance, like Anomen she can wear up to Full-Plate armor.

Reputation wise, it's only 2 points, if you do good deeds through out the game you get about 10+ Rep. points so I wouldn't worry about it. The girdle of stone giant strength isn't worth getting, because you can get Gauntlets of Ogre Power early on, then you can advance to get Crom Faeyr.

[Dundee Slaytern]

?? Wasted time and effort? Considering all the bonuses that the Fighter class will grant the Cleric class, the minor inconvenience of waiting 8 levels to regain your Fighter abilities is inconsequential( 8 levels in Anomen's case).

It is a moot point though, since the game was generous enough to give Anomen to you as a level 7/10 Fighter->Cleric. That is 17 levels in total, and no waiting time required to start exploiting his abilities.

Even in spellcasting, Anomen does better than Viconia, because unlike her, he can grant better STR Damage bonuses to his sling shots with minimal effort, and he will have more ApR to boot. Viconia's extra 2 spell slots due to WIS bonuses is NOTHING compared to the advantages that Anomen has from his Fighter class.

If you think swinging Crom Faeyr once per round is sad... wait till you see Viconia hurl a sling once per round. I can easily imagine Korgan seizing Crom Faeyr from Viconia due to frustration and abject horror at how its' abilities are being wasted on her and to show her how to really use Crom Faeyr. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Anomen's party members however... will grudingly admit he knows how to use CFaeyr, even if they hate his guts.

Viconia's DEX is easily countered with the Gauntlets of Dexterity. What in Torm's name can she wear in her Gauntlet Slot that will make Anomen envy her? It is bitter irony that her lack of a Fighter class part forbids her from using any of the warrior gauntlets.

Viconia's Magic Resistance is easily replacable with the Cloak of Mirroring, and how convenient is it that most of the spells that the CoM cannot counter, can be countered by Chaotic Commands + Free Action?

It is simply futile to say that Viconia is a better Cleric than Anomen, because this is simply not true. Anomen has been getting the shaft over the years because of people hating his personality while they get seduced by Viconia. Distracted by her figure, they have failed to analyse their statistics.

The evidence does not lie.

If a person chooses to hire Viconia over Anomen due to personality conflicts, then that is fine by me. I can understand that decision because I do find his banter nerve-grating. Getting Viconia because you want to romance her is fine too.

However... it frustrates me when people wrongly claim Viconia to be a better Cleric than Anomen, because it is simply not true. The numbers are all there, the statistics are all there. The TRUTH, is all there.

Oh... and to conclude... and as I will bitterly admit and as Alson will revel in glee... a party comprising of pureclasses will get their butts mopped all over the floor by a party comprising of multi/dualclasses.

About only the Sorcerer or Mage will survive the first few rounds, then it is a matter of watching in frustration as the Kensai->Mage, Kensai->Thief, Berserker->Cleric, etc... dance around.

This is assuming you are not allowed to repeat the same class in either party.

[ 07-25-2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Nerull]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: Oh... and to conclude... and as I will bitterly admit and as Alson will revel in glee... a party comprising of pureclasses will get their butts mopped all over the floor by a party comprising of multi/dualclasses. About only the Sorcerer or Mage will survive the first few rounds, then it is a matter of watching in frustration as the Kensai->Mage, Kensai->Thief, Berserker->Cleric, etc... dance around.

Definitely, especially considering the dual-classing. Dual classes can be extremely powerful once you exceed the level of your previous class, as they advance at the same rate as a pureclass, but have all of the extra abilities. Like mentioned earlier, Anomen has 7 levels in fighter, with all of the extras that come with it (5 slots in a weapon, extra 1/2 attack per round, etc.), and by the time you get to the end of ToB he will only be one level behind Viconia as a cleric. Look at how powerful a kensai/mage can be. You complain about not getting the HLAs of a fighter? You advance just as quickly as a pureclass mage (with only some xp lost in the beginning from advancing the first class and the downtime in getting back your abilities), but get all of the extra abilities from that other class.

Multiclass is great when you count the HLAs, due to the extra level ups.

Now, in the 3rd edition, where the rules are different, then pureclasses definitely rule. But in the 2nd edition, especially BG2, dual and multi class characters rule.

[SixOfSpades]

Anomen:

• Can reach Grandmastery in a weapon (and getting the ApR bonuses that got with it), and learn the Weapon Styles to their maximum
• Has a better base THAC0
• Was a Fighter just long enough to get their ApR boost at Level 7
• Has more hitpoints for being a Fighter
• Has more hitpoints for having a better CON
• Can cast both Holy and Unholy Smite/Blight/Word
• Only requires 1 stat to be boosted, as to Viconia's 2
• Is not Evil
• Does not impose a Rep. penalty on joining
• Doesn't violently conflict with other party members
• Has his own personal gear (which can be improved with Item Upgrades)
• Has a Quest

Viconia:

• Base 65% Magic Resistance (and can use the HF+5)
• 2 more points of WIS mean 1 extra Level 3 and Level 4 spell per day
• Is considerably less grating than Annoyman
• Has a better Romance than Annoyman
• Is hot
• Has higher INT

Did I miss anything?

[Gangrell]

Hmm, I guess I'l give Anomen a shot, I'm getting bored with the data I have right now anyway (you know, with the way the Berserking ability prevents Imprisonment, Kangaxx bypasses that rule quite well). I don't want my next party going evil, so I'll just take Edwin along (no Korgan), might even try solo, who knows?

But since we're on the topic of who is better, Minsc or Sarevok? (besides for the obvious reason of Deathbringer Assault [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

[BaRoN NiGhT]

talking and debating viccy and anomen about which is the best priest, well i have to make an underline their: best priest .repeat again: best priest.ok, so we are now clear that we're talkin' about the priest.a priest is a priest, and a fighter is a fighter.priest is not a fighter, and also a fighter is not a priest.if we are talkin' about who is the best priest, u have to see the char of which is the most char to have better knowledge about priests knowledge and the plus things that someone has, like natural resistance etc., not the things that u get from items.this (knowledge)is distinguished by wisdom.and what about attack per round and slots proficiency and other yada-yada things that are are related to fighters?that really doesn't matter at all.you are talking about a priest aren't u?so why do we have to care about those things that is a fighters type things.i will repeat again: priest...not fighter... u cant compare between a fighter and a priest.its like comparing sugar with salt.its a different thing though if u r talkin' about a fighter.so the best priest is vi...oo i dont have to tell ya do i?

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