Cleric question?

[masteraleph]

Actually, I'd recommend a ranger dualed to a cleric as well. If you don't have TOB, I'd probably take the ranger part to 9th level (get that extra proficiency), if you do have TOB, take the ranger to 13th level (2 prof points, one at 9th and one at 12th, and an extra half attack per round...and when you add boots of speed, then it's a full attack per round).

[bulletsponge]

what lvl you need to be to get greater ww attack? Viconia can get it right?

[ 06-03-2002, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: bulletsponge ]

[Tim Tam]

Still amazed at the amount of misinformation being posted.

The best way to play a cleric depends on your style of gaming. Are you a powergamer, or do you prefer roleplaying?

Powergamer clerics go for the dual or multi class. Beserker or Ranger dualed to Cleric, or Ranger/Cleric, or even Cleric/Mage. These mixed classes take a lot longer to level up and become useful, but when they reach high level they are very powerful. Dualed fighters get a lot more hit points, more weapon proficiencies and are slightly more useful at the start of the game.

As this is the SoA forum I'll assume you dont have ToB, which rules out the multi classes and probably the Beserker dualed. You are left with Ranger dualed to Cleric at level 9 (300,000 xp). If you wait to dual at level 13 (when you get +1/2 attack and better saves) you'll be 1,500,000 xp into the game and wont have enough xp left to regain the Ranger abilities (need 1,500,000 more xp to hit Cleric level 14). Even in ToB dualing at level 13 for a Ranger isn't recommended, you'll spend half the game being useless, just so you can have an extra half attack in ToB. 1,200,000 xp is a lot to ask for half an attack and minor saves improvement.

Rangers dualed to Cleric do get the Druid spells. IMO this is a bug, as the Druid spells should be linked to the Ranger level, not the Cleric level. Powergamers don't mind about this though, and the Iron Skin and Insect Plague are very useful spells.

Dualed fighter/clerics are able to spend as many weapon proficiencies as whatever class can, that is active. Good, but you still need to place stars as a cleric while the fighter class is inactive, so the higher you want the fighter class to be, the more stars you will have to distribute to useless spots. Ranger/Clerics get 2 stars max in weapons, 3 in dual weilding (starts with 2 already there). Beserker/Clerics get 5 stars and 3 in dual. Pure clerics only get 1 star.

Roleplaying characters prefer to be pure clerics or kits, or they may dual from a fighter, but not at the optimum level or with the best proficiencies. Pure clerics are good, but the Kits have no disadvantages so they are better. The best kit is the Priest of Lathander, followed by Talos, then Helm.

Lathander gives you the mage spell Hold Undead every 5 levels and Boon of Lathander every 10. Boon raises your attack abilities to almost that of a dualed Ranger/Cleric (not dual weilding) for 1 round per level and grants immunity to level drain. Nice, someone else can wear the Amulet of Power, or weild the Mace of Disruption +2.

Talos gives you lightning bolt/5 levels, and Storm Shield/10. Storm Shield is pretty good, 100% resistance to fire, cold and lightning, and protection from normal missiles. Great for lower levels, and even has some uses at high levels for a little bit of extra protection.

Helm gives you True Sight/5, and Seeking Sword/10. The extra True Sight means you wont have to make room for True Seeing, a level 5 cleric spell that does the same thing. Seeking Sword is good at low levels, and absolutely useless at mid to high levels. It stops you from casting spells, and better weapons are available fairly early on, although the 3 attacks per round are usually better than you can do on your own.

Clerics get only the 1 star maximum in any weapon slot, thats why Boon of Lathander is good, +1 attack per round.

In SoA, a dualed Ranger/Cleric ends up levels 9/19, pure Cleric ends up level 21 (with an extra level 4 spell, and 2 each extra level 5 and 6 spells). Being a powergamer though you would remove the xp cap and nullify this advantage.

In ToB, the differences between dualed Ranger/Cleric and Pure Cleric/Kit are a lot less noticable. Levels end up 9/39 vs 40 (or 13/36 if you really want to dual at level 13 Ranger). Being a Ranger for 300,000 xp then switching leaves you pretty close to a normal cleric in spell casting, about 60 HP ahead, extra half attack (plus weapon proficiency and dual weilding capability for even more attacks), all the Druid spells (bug, but powergamers don't mind) and you are more useful early on when fighting is better than casting.

In summary, powergamers dual a Ranger at level 9 to Cleric, roleplayers take a cleric kit, Lathander preferred (or Talos if evil).

[Radek]

To Hanz123: Correct. A ranger can put only ++ in a weapon ability. My apologies.
To Tim Tam: Roleplaying points of view be hanged. What we want is the most powerful character conforming our wishes. Let us suppose we want a cleric.
1. We can play a pure cleric. We can select a kit. I agree that Lathander is the best. The kit gives us no disadvantages and a few advantages which were described in your post.
2. We can play a ranger/CLERIC dualled immediately at level 7. Then we do not lose any levels even without XP cap remover because we lose only 89000 XP. We gain HP, proficiency slots, druid spells and weapon styles and the expert level for all weapons. We do not need to lose any proficiency slot! How?
a) Distribute the slots of a ranger in priest's weapons so that you leave out one priest weapon that you will improve later. For example, clubs.
b) Dual. The priest gets 1 proficiency slot. Give it to the clubs.
c) Level up to level 3. At level 4, the priest gets next proficiency slot. Do not level up to level 4.
d) Collect XP until your priest qualifies for level 8. Now level up! The proficiency slot from level 4 is still here along with next proficiency slot from level 8. But these slots are now assigned by a ranger/CLERIC, not by a pure cleric.
The trick is usable only when you dual at low level. Waiting for level 10 or 14 is rather impossible.
3. We can play a ranger/CLERIC dualled at level 9. We get one proficiency slot which we lose during "pure cleric" phase - if we stop leveling up at level 7 and wait for level 10. We also get more HP and our THAC0 is better by 2. On the other hand, we are losing cleric levels because we are losing 300000 XP. In the other words, dualling at level 9 is a wrong idea in case of ranger/CLERIC! The HP gained on level 8 and 9 of the ranger are unessential with respect to the cleric levels! The THAC0 does not matter at all because the cleric part will have better THAC0 in the end. Thus, the THAC0 improvement is only a temporary advantage.
4. We can dual at level 12 or 13. You have shown clearly how gigantic nonsense is it in SoA.
Summary: We have to decide between a pure cleric with a kit and a ranger/CLERIC dualled immediately. I vote for the ranger/CLERIC.

[bulletsponge]

Still amazed at the amount of misinformation being posted

anything i post could fit in that catagory, considering this is the first game like this ive played. i dont even know what THACO means, all i know is that its good for combat [img]redface.gif[/img]
ohh, i also know Anoman is anoying as hell.

extra smiley in post: [img]graemlins/monster3.gif[/img]

[Sir Exxon]

Originally posted by bulletsponge: what lvl you need to be to get greater ww attack? Viconia can get it right?

Greater Whirlwind attack is a ToB-ability. Your warriors can choose to learn it when they are two levels over their highest level in SoA, which varies between level 17 and 20. And you ofcourse need to have ToB installed, as it is a ToB-ability, you cant get it with just the downloadable cap-remover.

[Alisttair]

I think taking a kit appropriate to your cleric's alignment and being purely that is good. I personally enjoy evil Priests of Talos cause they can cast lightning bolt and have storm shield which is really good, but helm and lathander priest abilities are pretty good as well.

I did try playing as a Priest of Helm. Only reason though was because I can use a sword, but the Sword was really good. But the fact that I was neutral is something I do not like.