Why??

[Animal]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Animal, none of that is legit in my eyes, and none of it is legit based on the the facts and/or history. I'm not a rabid pro-Republican who craves war at every chance, but I have followed these issues over the past dozen years, and nothing you've said regarding this action in Iraq "washes".

Like I said, it was "my take" on the situation, how I feel about the war. If I offended you Ronn, I appologize, it was not my intent. It's not that I disagree with the need to remove Saddam, I disagree with the methods of doing so.

I don't think anyone will really know the truth, other than perhaps a few top officials, in a select few countries.

I have the luxury of living in a country that no one really pays any attention to. Very rarely do we get involved in anyone's business, we just pretty much keep to ourselves. I was born and raised in the UK, travel there quite frequently. I have visited many places around the world, both for pleasure and business, and have learned one thing quite well. Don't judge a book by it's cover. Politicians, no matter who they are, or what country they represent are human beings and as such, often act in their own best interests just as we all do.

EDIT: Ronn, I must applaud you for you manners. I have gained much respect for you, in seeing the way you deal with myself and others. Thank you.

[ 03-20-2003, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Animal ]

[Azred]

Originally posted by Avatar: How does this war REALLY AFFECT us?

This war will make no difference to my daily life. None at all.

Originally posted by Avatar: Iraqi people suffer less in the long run. A better gov. more wealth no more sanctions. A definite good!

Indeed! The Iraqi people should get to enjoy the benefit of having more control over their daily life. [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Avatar: UN reputation diminished. Bad! US doing what it wants... not so good. So this war comes down to the fact that we don't like cocky Americans doing what they want to do.

I hope the UN's reputation is diminished. In fact, I hope the UN gets dissolved completely. What a useless waste of time and space it is....
The US is a soverign country; thus, we have the right to make our own choices regardless of what the rest of the world thinks. I, for one, don't care about world opinion.
If you don't like America, that's just fine with me. As an adult, you have the right to make your own choices. However, any protestations against us are, of course, meaningless and unimportant. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

[ 03-21-2003, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Azred ]

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally posted by Animal: History has shown us that the victor always writes the history books, and this will be no different. Whether Saddam is telling the truth about having no WoMD or not we'll never know. It is guaranteed that WoMD will be found, when all is said and done, as 'proof' that war was necessary. They may or may not be Saddam's weapons, but they will be blamed on Saddam. Again, we'll never know the truth.

Do you still feel the same?
Do I need to mention that confirmed SCUDs were fired toward Kuwait?
Do you realize saddam said he does not have any SCUDs?
Do you realize that the warhead on a SCUD is interchangeable, ex.. Explosive, Chemical, Biological, or Nuclear?

So, it does not matter who writes the history of the event. Iraq has used weapons that were sanctioned not to have by the UN, were to destroy, and claimed they no longer had.

This could also be used as justification of the falling of the UN, as it is clear that Iraq still has equipment the UN has told them to get rid of!

Originally posted by Felix The Assassin: Do you still feel the same? Do I need to mention that confirmed SCUDs were fired toward Kuwait? Do you realize saddam said he does not have any SCUDs? Do you realize that the warhead on a SCUD is interchangeable, ex.. Explosive, Chemical, Biological, or Nuclear? So, it does not matter who writes the history of the event. Iraq has used weapons that were sanctioned not to have by the UN, were to destroy, and claimed they no longer had. This could also be used as justification of the falling of the UN, as it is clear that Iraq still has equipment the UN has told them to get rid of![/QB]

Where is the proof that they are Scuds?
None yet, And they were blown up by anti-missle missiles so they ain't likely to be any.

According to something I heard on the radio, A Kuwait police chief said they were probably Chinese ballistic missiles a few metres long.

Iraq was allowed some Ballistic missiles IIRC. And some of those they were allowed did have the range to reach Kuwait.
Also remember that both the British and American Militaries have both lied and falsified stuff before and even made mistakes.

Take it all with a pinch of salt.

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: For our non-American friends, the stock market is on an upswing since military action has begun, but NOT because the market prefers war. The market has suffered greatly in the face of uncertainty, and action removes that uncertainty.[/QB]

However The Market has lost staggering amounts of value since sept 11th. And I doubt that it will recover the levels it was before that for years to come.

The Dividends from some of the Shares I have came to about half what they were before sept. 11t

Indeed I think what with this war and similar, any increases we see in the stock market will be the result of people buying up shares while they are hammered down.

Lots of people will be wanting to get out of the shares and stocks, so they’re gonna sell! Sell! Sell!

And the market will just Yo-Yo.

Anyway, The Tax cuts for the rich, since rich people spend less proportionally and save more than other people will just help to constipate the economy.
And The Rich will be saving and not spending anyway what with the current economic climate.

It’s all a bit naughty really.

[Felix The Assassin]

[quote]Originally posted by Eisenschwarz:

Where is the proof that they are Scuds? None yet, And they were blown up by anti-missle missiles so they ain't likely to be any. According to something I heard on the radio, A Kuwait police chief said they were probably Chinese ballistic missiles a few metres long. Iraq was allowed some Ballistic missiles IIRC. And some of those they were allowed did have the range to reach Kuwait. Also remember that both the British and American Militaries have both lied and falsified stuff before and even made mistakes. Take it all with a pinch of salt.

1. Nope, none yet. Nope not all were hit. We allowed two to land in the desert where they could be inspected later.

2. ChBMs? Really. That means they must have been launched outside of Iraq in order to go that far. You can do the math. But it's over 150 miles from the Iraqi border to Kuwait City, that would be about 30 miles beyond the allowed range! To add, They were headed to the Kuwati oil fields, which is about another 30 miles past Kuwait City.

Are you saying Iraq has invaded Kuwait again?

I prefer to pepper to salt.

1. Nope, none yet. Nope not all were hit. We allowed two to land in the desert where they could be inspected later.

2. ChBMs? Really. That means they must have been launched outside of Iraq in order to go that far. You can do the math. But it's over 150 miles from the Iraqi border to Kuwait City, that would be about 30 miles beyond the allowed range! To add, They were headed to the Kuwati oil fields, which is about another 30 miles past Kuwait City.

Are you saying Iraq has invaded Kuwait again?

I prefer to pepper to salt.[/QB][/QUOTE]

And will journalists and/or independent parties by allowed to examine them to prove that they are Scud missiles?

And to point two I posit unto you, this> Where was the missiles when they were shot down?
Where they truly over over Kuwait? Or were they shot down while they were still over Iraq?
Since if they were over Iraq at the time, it is meaningless.
I can go outside and orient myself towards London and start walking, I can claim that I have the range to get there, But I would likely not manage to walk all the way there.

If they were shot down over the 150mile limit, and they do know where they were launched from, The point is of course moot.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: I can go outside and orient myself towards London and start walking, I can claim that I have the range to get there, But I would likely not manage to walk all the way there.

Well enjoy your trip!

[Animal]

Originally posted by Felix The Assassin: Quote: Originally posted by Animal: History has shown us that the victor always writes the history books, and this will be no different. Whether Saddam is telling the truth about having no WoMD or not we'll never know. It is guaranteed that WoMD will be found, when all is said and done, as 'proof' that war was necessary. They may or may not be Saddam's weapons, but they will be blamed on Saddam. Again, we'll never know the truth.

Do you still feel the same?
Do I need to mention that confirmed SCUDs were fired toward Kuwait?
Do you realize saddam said he does not have any SCUDs?
Do you realize that the warhead on a SCUD is interchangeable, ex.. Explosive, Chemical, Biological, or Nuclear?

So, it does not matter who writes the history of the event. Iraq has used weapons that were sanctioned not to have by the UN, were to destroy, and claimed they no longer had.

This could also be used as justification of the falling of the UN, as it is clear that Iraq still has equipment the UN has told them to get rid of![/QUOTE]All I've heard is that Iraq fired missiles at Kuwait, but they didn't reach any particular target. The Kuwaiti official who located the downed missiles would not confirm whether they were SCUD's or not, but did say that they weren't professionaly built and if that was all Saddam had in his arsenal then nobody had much to worry about.

I still feel the same way. The victor WILL write the history books, and there is no doubt in anyone's mind who that will be.

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Animal: I still feel the same way. The victor WILL write the history books, and there is no doubt in anyone's mind who that will be.

The victor's do write the history books. That much is true, but if you pre-suppose that everything the victor writes will be lies and are sure that any evidence that proves the case after the fact can't be true... you aren't going to learn the truth either.