I want to know something.

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: Ok dictator is a wrong term absolutly. Can he be called a hypocrit? Can he be called a hero? is Warmonger ok? What about savior? What can he be called without inciting resentment?

Hypocrit, hero, warmonger, savior? Who cares?

Resentment? Maybe the resentment at name calling is because name calling is childish and silly, and maybe those who associate with Bush and believe he's doing a good job don't like having those terms leveled at their beliefs.

Maybe no name calling at all and a simple discussion of the issues wouldn't incite resentment?

BTW, I was answering IR's question, not standing up indignantly at childish name calling. If I were standing up indignantly at childish name calling I'd have said something profound like, "I know you are, so what am I?" or "Your Momma!"

That's the classy kind of guy I am...lol. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: that might just be johnny.. Ronn Bmann talked about Americans believing in him and all that.. what about the majority of the Earth? does the population of the earth overwhelmingly support him? If not what does that tell you? and vice versa if so what does that say? What about the majority of the Earth? He doesn't represent the majority of the Earth, and he isn't suppose to. It would be great if the entire world came together, but you know what? That wouldn't mean just the US acting in the best interest of the rest of the world, it would also mean the rest of the world acting in the best interest of the US. It works both ways. who does the population of the earth overwhelmingly support? anyone at all?,, We're all here on one planet aren't we? whats the point of division by nation? isnt it divided we fall united we stand? why not we all vote for human leader overwhelmingly.. what is standing in the way of that?,, Well it isn't Bush and it isn't America anymore than it's any other nation or groups of nations. bush is not only an easy target because he is a prominent american but because he is a prominent human.. and if majority of human on whole of the earth think he is good.. then power to him... continue in this path.. if most human think he is bad.. then should we not fire him and install another? majority rules right.. isn't that democracy? But the world isn't a democracy is it? Sure Bush is a prominent human, but the reason he is prominent is because he's the leader of the US. Not having an Earth leader who's agreed upon by the majority of the world population isn't Bush's or the US's fault at all. It's the entire world's for not acting together isn't it? Djinn, I know your heart's in the right place, but it seems like your laying the blame for the lack of a one nation world on the US, and that's pretty unrealistic.

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: Ok dictator is a wrong term absolutly. Can he be called a hypocrit? Can he be called a hero? is Warmonger ok? What about savior? What can he be called without inciting resentment?

Examples of Hypocrasy please? In my own opinion Bush is the first leader we have had in a long time who stands firm in his beliefs, and isn't afraid to say what he personally believes in. He doesnt always get what he wants because he is not in fact a dictator, so if congress changes things, that does not make him guilty of being a hypocrit, it means he doesnt rule by fiat.

Just a point to any person out there who thinks the world should be run jointly by votes of all the people....you all need to wake up and realize that there are far more people who would like to see you dead or in bondage than see you free and voting. It is a sad reality but one that people who live in their dream world utopia's better understand. There are people, people with real power out there, who would love to just have you killed for sport. Humans are not all nice and gushy inside no matter what the "Can't we all just get along" crowd says.

[Djinn Raffo]

Absolutly right about the name calling ron.. achieves nothing.. but dictator is just a word.. a negative one yeah.

I'm not laying the blame for the lack of one nation on the us.. not at all. My whole point was that.. if the majority of the worlds people 'believe' that he is a 'insert name' here.. then thats their right to call him that. You can have a hissy fit over it even if like GR said.. the name he is being called does not fit the definition of the word. He pointed out he wasnt a dictator and spelled out the reasons why. i agree, he's not a dictator.

[ 01-18-2003, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK: Humans are not all nice and gushy inside no matter what the "Can't we all just get along" crowd says.

I disagree. Every human has the potential for love and the potential for hate. The potential to create and the potential to destroy, to smile or frown, bless or curse, help or hinder, selflessness or selfishness.

It's a choice each individual makes at given times.

[ 01-18-2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by MagiK: Just a point to any person out there who thinks the world should be run jointly by votes of all the people....you all need to wake up and realize that there are far more people who would like to see you dead or in bondage than see you free and voting. It is a sad reality but one that people who live in their dream world utopia's better understand. There are people, people with real power out there, who would love to just have you killed for sport. Humans are not all nice and gushy inside no matter what the "Can't we all just get along" crowd says.

I'm sure you've got plenty, you always do, but could you name me some of the folks with real power who want to kill me for sport. Just so I can keep an eye out for 'em is all.

Just as an aside: Without the pursuit of utopia, what life is there? Everyone has their own personal idea of how they'd like their society to be, why not hold on to that vision and use your life to work toward it. If you don't, and you give up on your ideals, you're just a slave to the wills of others, who do work toward how they want things to be. You know this Magik, it's not like you to give up so easily. [img]smile.gif[/img] You can say it's not human nature, but if one human believes it is possible, and does live their life in a certain way, then the potential is there for others to live as such as well. We're all going to die someday, one way or another, might as well use our time toward making what we think is good for the world. Keep the faith brother [img]smile.gif[/img]

and yeah, on topic, George Bush jnr. aint no dictator.

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: Absolutly right about the name calling ron.. achieves nothing.. but dictator is just a word.. a negative one yeah. I'm not laying the blame for the lack of one nation on the us.. not at all. My whole point was that.. if the majority of the worlds people 'believe' that he is a 'insert name' here.. then thats their right to call him that. You can have a hissy fit over it even if like GR said.. the name he is being called does not fit the definition of the word. He pointed out he wasnt a dictator and spelled out the reasons why. i agree, he's not a dictator.

Majority of the world? Im pretty sure not even 1/4 of the 6 billion world residents have been polled. And it also goes against the public statments of world leaders who have actually met hm and acutally talked to him have to say about him......

I know I haven't received even on phone cll asking for my opinion on the matter.

[ 01-20-2003, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: I'm sure you've got plenty, you always do, but could you name me some of the folks with real power who want to kill me for sport. Just so I can keep an eye out for 'em is all. Leave it to you to catch it when I get sloppy with my plural pronouns. Obviously I did not intend the word YOU to mean YOU in particular. THere are Many nations who do not wish YOU whoever YOU may be to have the right to vote or even have a say in how things are run. Pretty much any communist country you can name is against any kind of real freedoms for its citizens, along with every dictatorship..so please take your pick. I think I am going to have to take TL's advice and work on using "one" as a pronoun. and yeah, on topic, George Bush jnr. aint no dictator.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: Just a point to any person out there who thinks the world should be run jointly by votes of all the people....you all need to wake up and realize that there are far more people who would like to see you dead or in bondage than see you free and voting. It is a sad reality but one that people who live in their dream world utopia's better understand. There are people, people with real power out there, who would love to just have you killed for sport. Humans are not all nice and gushy inside no matter what the "Can't we all just get along" crowd says.

Amen.

When the fed couldn't pass the budget during Clinton's admin, a friend of mine suggested we put it to a national referrendum. I was appalled.

With Harvard, Princeton, and Yale's best economists working on the budget, we were having trouble balancing things out, and this guy wanted every ignorant Tom, Dick, Jane, and Harry in the country deciding it? You gotta be kidding me.

There are two main assumptions, IMO, the U.S. system of government, which is a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC, for those of you who forgot 8th Grade Civics:

1. Because individual people specialize in their *jobs* rather than running the country, they choose people who have more expertise to do that job, thereby delegating the job of representing a group to one individual;

2. Part of the representative's job, often times, is to look at what is good for the NATION as a whole rather than those people in it at a given time: it is more important that we go on as a Nation that we enjoy today, and it is sometimes the case that the best long-term decision is unpopular or has bad ramifications in the short term.

For this reason, I sure as hell don't want Billy Bob Joe Jack deciding whether or not to pass the budget, or any other number of governmental decisions we delegate to representatives.

I did mention I'm a elitist, didn't I?

[ 01-20-2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]