The Soldier

[Ronn_Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk:
it is not longer necessary to go to war, just putting a bit more effort into the good ol' diplomacy and thinking of others opinions should do the trick, and other things like economic sanctions and loan withdrawal should work. Anyway if we look at human history it has been marked by progressive liberalising

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Here's an interesting analogy based on fact versus theory...

It's been said that the US could have avoided our Civil War over slavery. It is theorized, with the increased importance of industrial production, the subsequent lowering of labor costs, and the decreasing reliance on agriculture, slavery would have become too costly and unnecessary, by the turn of the century, to continue. The theory says that slavery could have disappeared in as little as 20 years.

Keep in mind, sanctions would not have worked because the rebel states proved, beyond any doubt, they would fight if they felt threatened politically, economically, or militarily. This is fact!

If the theory is true (it probably is to some degree), would the enslavement of millions for another two generations have been better than the US Civil War which lasted for about 4 years? If there was no other ill effect from just waiting this one out or negotiating it, then the civil rights issues, and subsequent changes, of the 60s would just be starting today. How different the world could have been?

Politics or violence in this situation? I won't argue that politics can never work, it just depends how much time you have, and what is lost due to the waiting.

Of course, there are those who would say the Civil War was not over slavery, but instead, over the rights of individual states versus the federal government. The issue of state's rights versus a centralized government had been argued since the beginning and had really become a serious dividing point in the 20 years prior to the Civil War, and slavery was the straw that broke the camels back.

***In fairness to you Dramnek, I edited and expanded my previous post, so you may want to look at it again.

[AzureWolf]

quote:

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Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant:
i say turn their whole worthless bass ackward country to glass. just my two cents though.

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*sigh*

[Morgan_Corbesant]

quote:

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Originally posted by AzureWolf:


*sigh*

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*SIGH*

[Magness]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk:

Violence always provokes more violence, and that leads to endless violence though human history, always has, always will. You cannot stop violence with violence.

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Hey, Dramnek, I'd say that violence certainly ended the problem of European Fascism and Imperial Japanese imperialism for good.

I am not promoting war. But sometimes problems reach a point where diplomacy completely fails (or never has a chance of success) and there are only two options complete capitulation or war. The complete capitulation option never happens. Neville Chamberlain tried to appease Herr Hitler and all it did was encourage the nutty paperhanger to keep on pushing harder. War "works" to "solve" a problem when one side so completely destroys the other that the problem no longer exists. The American Civil War and WW2 are examples of this.

IMHO, WW1 "failed" in this regard because millions died, but neither side was destroyed. Essentially, WW2 was simply a continuation of of WW1 with a 20 year intermission. The Germans simply called a 20 year timeout. WW2 ended the matter conclusively because German, Japan, and Italy were utterly obliterated and conquered and the Allies said "ENOUGH OF THIS CRAP ... NO MORE FASCISM"!!!

Sometimes, the saying "this town ain't big enough for the both of us" is very true. WW2 was an example of that. The world wasn't big enough for both freedom and fascism. Either one side or the other would win and the other would die. Pure and simple. Attempting to avoid such a conflict merely delays the inevitable.

[Morgan_Corbesant]

yes, but if we get rid of the ones who commit violence against us, then they cant do it again. i mean, its not like we just said, hey, im bored, lets go bomb someone. they started it, and damnit, america WILL finish it. maybe not soon, but eventualy, we will prevail!!!

[Magness]

Hi, Morgan,

quote:

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Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant:

yes, but if we get rid of the ones who commit violence against us, then they cant do it again. i mean, its not like we just said, hey, im bored, lets go bomb someone. they started it, and damnit, america WILL finish it. maybe not soon, but eventualy, we will prevail!!!

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Was this directed to me? If so, I think we have a miscommunication. I think that you and I are perfectly in sync on this. As you put it so accurately ... "they started it, and damnit, america WILL finish it."

[Morgan_Corbesant]

oops, my bad, sorry. i was reading it fast, and thought you were opposed for a sec, lol.