Bible Verses Removed From Grand Canyon

[Chewbacca]

Hitler would be proud...sheesh. Thats a poorly chosen statement if I ever saw one, not to mention incorrect and over the top.

The point is, these were bible verses, the religous text of christainity. Blame the supposed persecution of things christian or the fact that its just beautiful literature all you want, but it still a piece of religious text that has references to the Christian God. In case you didnt know, some Americans dont believe in God.

Considering the Grand Canyon is considered sacred by native americans, who were forcibly christianized in mass for all intents and purposes, I consider these plaques not only unconstitutional but offensive as well. Good riddance I say, we have enough painful reminders of the past.

[Ar-Cunin]

Originally posted by pritchke: Hitler would be proud.

Someone remind me - what is that law which states something about how long a discussion has to go before someone accuses to other 'side' of being Nazi's?


P.S. Pritchke - why are you using MagiK's font? You're confusing me [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 07-15-2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Ar-Cunin ]

[pritchke]

I wasn't calling anyone Nazi's but Hitler seemed to be a guy that liked to take away people's freedom. So if he was watching all these text being removed it would probably make him simile. No one is being called a Nazi, it is just that sometimes I wonder what was the purpose of defeating Germany if we cannot display a plaque with poetry. As for Native American how would they feel if we decided that their totem poles (may be only associated with west coast) were offensive and they were required to remove them because of the religious significance. If you do not believe that Psalms is a book of poems they I would suggest reading it. Many have nothing to do with God but the interaction of people. I consider the book of psalms to be a work of art and contains work of many of historical unknown poets. You people have to stop thinking that everything the book was handed down by God in the king James version as it is today. Sometimes I wonder who are the hard core fanatics (the hard core Christians or hard core atheist). If you don't believe in something how can it offend you? If you wish to ban something than stop the Jehovah Witness from going door to door, a plaque just sits there but those guys can be annoying.

I am using MagiKs font while he is away.

[ 07-15-2003, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by pritchke: Another slap in the face to free thinking, and human creativity.

Human creativity? The bible? THANK YOU!!! LLAO! Couldn't help myself there.

Anyway I completely agree with Nig.. ehh Lost Stalker on this one. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by pritchke:If you do not believe that Psalms is a book of poems they I would suggest reading it. Many have nothing to do with God but the interaction of people.

But according to Christain dogma the entire Bible is the Word of God. That would make the Psalms his/her work as well [img]tongue.gif[/img]

edit for clarity

[ 07-15-2003, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Rokenn ]

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by pritchke: I am using MagiKs font while he is away.

I thought we were going to get a real break! Nooooooooooo! (jk) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[pritchke]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by pritchke:If you do not believe that Psalms is a book of poems they I would suggest reading it. Many have nothing to do with God but the interaction of people.

But according to Christain dogma the entire Bible is the Word of God. That would make the Psalms his/her work as well [img]tongue.gif[/img]

edit for clarity [/QUOTE]

I guess it depends on how you wish to look at it.

What most moderate Christians believe is that God works through people. If this is true than the statement "the entire Bible is the Word of God" is not false. But the same can be said of paintings, and other forms of writing. Somewhere along the line "the entire Bible is the Word of God" statement was perverted and taken out of context. Men write what is in their harts, the bible all of it was written by men. The new testament is proof of that as several authors tell the story of Jesus. The contradictions in the old and new are due to different writers. Notice if you tell a story then those people tell a story it gets a little different as it is passed along.

There is no reason that these plaques should be offending anyone, it is silliness. What will be banned next.

[Chewbacca]

from the article The plaques are inscribed with passages from the Book of Psalms, specifically, by chapter and verse 68:4, 66:4 and 104.24. The last verse, in the King James Version of the Bible, reads: "O Lord, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches."

If this isn't religious poetry, what is? I don't have a Bible handy, so I can't comment on the other verses. It's practically a prayer, a prayer to the christian God on public goverment land.

Here is an unrealistic thought: A series of plaques from all different religions and philosophies, including aethistism, exhalting the virtues of natural beauty and bingo-the goverment is neither establishing any one religion at the Grand Canyon, nor denying any one religion at the Grand Canyon.

The only realistic answer is removing blatant and evn subtle religiousism of all sorts from goverment places, building and things.

If people didn't try to egotistically push their religion on other people through out the ages, it probably wouldn't even matter.

[Night Stalker]

Radical atheism is as much a faith based religion as radical Christianity. Atheism just places it's faith in the concept that God doesn't exist. As for religious text being unConstitutional, the 1^st Ammendment says "freedom of religion" - not freedom from religion.

I'm pretty ambivelant to the whole religion thing, but I am a staunch Constitutionalist. Prayer in gov assemblies, religious art in gov buildings, "In God we trust." on our currancy - that I am against. But the simple text from the Bible, Tora, Q'ran, Totems or whatever in public view doesn't bother me. Nor does it violate the 1^st IMO.

[pritchke]

[quote]Originally posted by Chewbacca:
[QB]

from the article The plaques are inscribed with passages from the Book of Psalms, specifically, by chapter and verse 68:4, 66:4 and 104.24. The last verse, in the King James Version of the Bible, reads: "O Lord, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches."

"O Lord" - Could be referring to a noble man or king who builds and creates many temples and buildings. Are you sure O Lord isn't referring to king Solomon, or another great king from those times. Sould we ban all poems on plaques with "O Lord" in them or just because they are from the Bible?

[ 07-15-2003, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]