Whats the point?

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:
For us in the West, happiness may be linked, amongst other things, with the freedom to purchase what we want, where we want it. For others, happiness might have something to do with a living wage, enough to eat, and freedom from fear and ongoing abuse. Just a thought...

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I saw a show, years ago, that contrasted the west and the third world.
Those in the third world were far and away happier than those in the west.

The third world - Strong and close large extended family, living and working on the land, communal music creation, fresh air, sun and rain.

The west - Personal isolation, pollution, rat race, material temptations, debt slavery, lack of family support, withdrawal from the elements. (little Sun, Rain, temperature changes, or unairconditioned/unheated air)

If there's one thing I learned/reaffirmed living out of one suitcase for five months, it's that we can live without most of the materials we work so hard to surround ourslves with, and that friends and family are the most precious valued thing.

[Donut]

Hey Barry, don't feel so down, it could be worse, you could live in Islington, everyone there is depressed about something.

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Donut:
Hey Barry, don't feel so down, it could be worse, you could live in Islington, everyone there is depressed about something.

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Did you know Australia has a depression epidemic at the moment?

Post Olympic related maybe?

[Barry the Sprout]

quote:

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Originally posted by Donut:
Hey Barry, don't feel so down, it could be worse, you could live in Islington, everyone there is depressed about something.

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Urmmmm, Donut? I live on Rosebery Avenue, just off Upper Street. About five minutes from Angel Tube station. (Have I mentioned this before thus prompting the famous Donut subtlety? Can't remember).

Thanks guys. It is always nice to know that not everyone is an uncaring bastard.

What I was really getting at though Yorick was much deeper. Why am I here? I don't gain any joy from the goals of our society - money and material things.

I used to think that my point in life was to try and change the world in as big a way as possible. Even if that is incredibly small and insignifcant. But then this happened and I realised that it just might never happen.

Also, I hate to say it, but I was alluding to how I felt jealous of those bastards. They don't have this kind of stuff to worry about. No one can give me a good answer as to what their life is for - but they don't care either. Also when they were branding me a sad git with no life because I try to effect things I started to think how nice it would be if I were able to just be like them.

What would life be like without social conscience - am I missing out.

Another thing that I thought was interesting about your answer Yorick was that you said you wanted to change the world when you were at University. I hope I still do in 20 years time as well, but no one takes me seriously because they don't think I will.

Damned if I do and damned if I don't as far as I can tell.

[Barry the Sprout]

Just a very small bump. Its nothing in the great scheme of things.

[Chewbacca]

quote:

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Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:


Another thing that I thought was interesting about your answer Yorick was that you said you wanted to change the world when you were at University. I hope I still do in 20 years time as well, but no one takes me seriously because they don't think I will.

Damned if I do and damned if I don't as far as I can tell.

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I'm only 28, but a majority of the people in my network are 20+ years older than me, not only do they still believe they can change the world, alot of them have in some fashion or another during vietnam and the civil right movement. True dedication to a cause is like wisdom, it can grow deeper and stronger with age...

[Barry the Sprout]

quote:

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Originally posted by Chewbacca:


I'm only 28, but a majority of the people in my network are 20+ years older than me, not only do they still believe they can change the world, alot of them have in some fashion or another during vietnam and the civil right movement. True dedication to a cause is like wisdom, it can grow deeper and stronger with age...

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Yeah I know Chewy - I am the only student in my anti sweatshop campaigning group. What I meant is that often people don't take you seriuosly when you are young because, like Yorick was saying, it is such a cliche.

Students are always activists and always grow out of it - is what most people say to me. I have thought this through and I was a Marxist before I got to Uni. I hope I will stay that way like the guys I know in these various groups. But it does scare me sometimes that I could change.

Thanks for your reply in the war forum thread (and Ronn_B if he is here). Hope my student colleagues like the article as well. On the basis of current feeling though I strongly doubt it.

[Silver Cheetah]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yorick:
[QB]


I saw a show, years ago, that contrasted the west and the third world.
Those in the third world were far and away happier than those in the west.

The third world - Strong and close large extended family, living and working on the land, communal music creation, fresh air, sun and rain.

The west - Personal isolation, pollution, rat race, material temptations, debt slavery, lack of family support, withdrawal from the elements. (little Sun, Rain, temperature changes, or unairconditioned/unheated air)

QB]

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What a marvelously shiny, happy view of the developing world! I've no doubt that many live in the paradise you describe, Yorick. Equally, many do NOT, and it is those that I and other activists are concerned with.

Go visit an Export Processing Zone, say in the Phillipines, and present your view of the world to the workers there. (If you can get in, that is. Zones are generally 'gated' and foreign visitors are not encouraged, unless visits have been arranged and cleared in advance.)

Try telling people who work in a factory up to 20 hours a day without the option of telling their employer 'actually, I don't want to work overtime today' that their lives are full of sunshine and close family ties. Many of these workers don't see their families from one month to the next, and the long working hours means they don't get to see the sun much either.

It's not all community living and big cook pots, old chap. There's over 27 million people living in Export Processing Zones. Suggest you do some proper research on this one, before coming out with the sweeping happy slappy generalisations!

[Aelia Jusa]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yorick:



I saw a show, years ago, that contrasted the west and the third world.
Those in the third world were far and away happier than those in the west.

The third world - Strong and close large extended family, living and working on the land, communal music creation, fresh air, sun and rain.

The west - Personal isolation, pollution, rat race, material temptations, debt slavery, lack of family support, withdrawal from the elements. (little Sun, Rain, temperature changes, or unairconditioned/unheated air)

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I saw a program like that a while ago. Environmental activists had successfully stopped the World Bank from damming a river in India that would allow a village to have fresh water, but would also have destroyed a forest (or something like that, it was a while ago). They justified it by saying that these people were much better off than people in developed countries because they had extended family and communal lifestyle etc, and people in developed countries just had stress and pollution and fractured families. But these people were also sick and dying from the noxious fumes of the dung they used as fuel, their infant mortality rate was incredibly high, etc. Regardless of whether the activists were right, it was easy enough to put a positive and quite persuasive spin on their actions. I don't think it's so simple though.

[Yorick]

You guys are trying to tell me the west IS a super happy paradise?

Right... and how many third world adolescant suicides, female anorexia/bullemic victims are there.

I shared a house with a Sri Lankan visitor for a couple of weeks, and I'm living with two Indonesians now. I have Malay, Taiwanese and Mongol students.

The Sri Lankan said and I quote:

"We don't understand the mental problems of women in the west. The have so much that we want, yet starve themselves."

My issue was not that the third world have it good, but it's quite possible that in many ways they have it better.

My mother grew up in Tanzania, East Africa. My whole family, Uncles etc. speak glowingly of their time in Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi and Zaire. They backed up the sentiments of the show.

Does slaving away for that new T.V. flashy automobile, small apartment above smog choked traffic with grey skies while watching/reading constant messages in the media that you are behind financially, behind romantically, uglylier than a supermodel, not advanced enough in your career, really make you happier than someone in the third world?

As I said, I personally know some, and it entirely depends on ones personal outlook. There is good and bad in every life, in every nation. We tend to normalise the dangers and hardships around us - better the devil you know than the one you don't.

In no way does that mean that we shouldn't fight for better conditions in the third world.

Neither should we pity them.