Any way to get a 2nd chance from Garrick?

[Sig Segorn]

What's a "Tank"? A heavily-armored fighter? I think that's good advice . . . to follow your own roleplay, not the loot and XP, but I would've accepted the job from Garrick if he hadn't misled me by saying that we were to protect Silke until she got to Baldur's Gate. It's not a big deal, but I'm gonna try some spells on him to see if I can get him to make the offer again. I read somewhere that Charm Person or something similar can make an NPC forget they ever met you or talked to you before. I don't have a savegame back far enough, but I wouldn't go back that far for this, even if I did. I'd rather not leave Silke unkilled, and I'd like to have a Bard in the party for his morale-boosting singing (the other Bard, Eldoth, you don't meet till Chapter 4, and he doesn't stay with you to the end). I found Karlat on my own---I won't say where, but, of course, he wasn't in the Jovial Juggler where the guide says he is. (To SixOfSpades: I favor the accommodations and amenities at Feldepost's Inn, but to each his own.) About Xzar, I took him and Montaron into the party, but he was killed in a fight immediately afterwards. I cut Montaron out of the party later on, as he was nagging me to hurry up and go to Nashkel. No doubt he's still waiting for nothing inside the Friendly Arm Inn.

[Midget Gems]

As one who has played as/with a Bard on several occasions, I feel I must add my comments to the discussion.

It comes down to this:- Bards are hopeless for power-gaming and great for role-playing, so make your choice accordingly. The best Bard is one that you create yourself, since both Eldoth and Garrick have poor stats, even by Bard standards. Of those two I slightly prefer Eldoth, though I often forget to use his special ability. I recently did the whole "Rescue Skie and then blackmail them" quest just to see how it worked out, not many people bother doing it as far as I can tell.

As for Garrick, I can't believe he would turn on you - run away, yes, get killed a lot, certainly - but he never attacked me. Pirengle and Six have given us an excellent description of Garrick in action, but this is my favorite tactic :-

Remove Armour ; cast Mirror Image ; replace Armour ; fit Boots of Speed ; start Bard-song ; run round and round in circles singing like a demented chipmunk ; enemy falls about laughing and are an easy kill for the rest of the team.

Ps. If a Bard casts Mirror Image and then selects Bard-song, will they all sing in harmony like a Barber Shop Quartet?

[Sig Segorn]

Liked your P.S., Midget Gems, but I must report that Garrick DID turn on my main character, and he's dead because of it, though I'm sure a defense attorney would say there were extenuating circumstances. What happened was . . . I cast Know Alignment on Silke, found out she was evil, and killed her, getting everything you get when you do so and no loss of reputation. Then, I cast Charm Person on Garrick. He gave me the rundown on himself, but didn't offer to join my party, and, when Charm wore off, he attacked, so we killed him, again with no loss of reputation. I'm happier with this outcome than if I'd just left him and Silke there. And it's not that I'm bloodthirsty . . . when we first entered Feldepost's Inn and were accosted by Marl, for example, I tried to keep my party from killing him, but was unsuccessful. I would say that I'm trying for a meld of power-gaming and role-playing. This one has me hooked, anyway.

[Grungi]

i said where karlat is, all directions are there [img]tongue.gif[/img] its the inn next to the jovial juggler with an entrance from the east not the south like most places.

garrick does turn on you, not leave the party but attack you and its not a reputation thing, it was 4 years ago when this happened to me so i really cannot remember the details but some quest i think pissed him off and he attacked me whilst i was fighting someone else i slaughtered him easily cos he was terrible but all the same he DOES attack you, wish i could remember why but the 1st time i played bg was a long long time ago now

[SixOfSpades]

A barbershop quartet requires 4 different voices (bass, baritone, 2nd tenor, 1st tenor). 4 Garricks singing would just be 4 Garricks singing. (Time to break out the earplugs!)

For some info on Tanks, take the link in my sig and read either:
the beginning of Chapter 2 (short version), or
the beginning of Chapter 7 (long version).

If you ditched Montaron in the Friendly Arm, he will probably not be there when you go back: He, Xzar, Jaheira and Khalid are all in a hurry to get to Nashkel, and if you enter Nashkel without them in your party, they will disappear.

Sig, Garrick probably turned hostile to you because you attacked Silke before she showed her true colors. Until she does so, Garrick thinks she's neato. I don't really understand him attacking the party later in the game, as I kept him all the way through the end of my last game, and he was perfectly fine with my 9 Charisma and the party's Average Reputation. Maybe he gets pissed if you do a certain quest a certain way? Doubtful, though, as he's Chaotic Neutral. Maybe you simply let your Rep. drop all the way to Despised?

Actually, Grungi, Karlat isn't in the inn next to the Jovial Juggler, he's in the inn next to the Burning Wizard. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Sig Segorn]

Hi, guys. Well, first of all, I finally found Karlat (on my own) and killed him, of course. Also, not that I care, but I've been back to the Friendly Arm after exploring Nashkel and Montaron is still waiting there, for nothing. And I'm sure there was some reason for Garrick attacking after Charm Person wore off, but it wasn't one of the possibilities you mentioned. I actually tried this first BEFORE killing Silke, and he still attacked when Charm wore off. And my party's reputation before and after killing Silke and him was Popular. It doesn't matter, but my best guesses are that it was just his bad reaction to having a mind-altering spell cast on him, or that, because he's not just an NPC, he's a potential party member, you're not allowed to get away with casting such a spell on him. This jives with the fact that his dead body is still laying in the street, even though it's been a number of game days since he was killed. Bothers me whenever we go past it, but, if I'd known what the deal was when I first talked to him, he'd be an archer-to-be-feared in my party, helping us save the world, instead of a pathetic, slowly-rotting dead bard laying in the street where he fell from a misbegotten duel he had no chance of winning.

[Grungi]

yeah garrick definately turns on you im surprised noone knows the reason why, wish i could remember which darned quest it was, its not an alignment thing , and i always keep mine between neutral and good anyway, was definately the way id reacted to someone trying to kill me, middle of the fight garrick has gone red and is hitting on me, annoying thing is i can start hacking up my own party and they dont go red on me most of the time so i dunno what i did that was so horrific to get him to start on me, i think hes just an untrustworthy so and so [img]tongue.gif[/img]

and u sure karlat isnt in the one next to jovial juggler? ie the one up the steps from silke? someone definately jumps you in that one, bah too man pubs with silly names in beregost

[Sig Segorn]

I dunno what that might've been that set Garrick off on you in YOUR case. This is my first time playing BG&TotSC and I haven't even done the Nashkel Mines yet. There's so much to do and get familiar with, and every day is like a crash course to find out as much as I can, so I don't miss out on some side quest or important NPC encounter, or walk into a situation I'm unprepared for, but I'm keeping my head above the water. Was it a female who was attacking you when Garrick turned on you? Doesn't he have a thing for the ladies---maybe the chivalrous sort? There are so many intricacies in this game, THAT could've had something to do with it. Or maybe a better guess is that an enemy spellcaster cast something on him that made him turn against you, and, in the heat of battle, you just didn't catch it scrolling up in the text box. I don't wanna bad-mouth Garrick too much. I don't like his portrait, but I like his name, and I'm still sorry I had to kill him, and wish I could start up a bard song whenever I thought it was called for. Anyway, I just added Minsc to my party, so I'm feeling better about things. I think I'm gonna go rescue his "charge," then let her get killed (to free up my last roster spot, but keep Minsc), then, later on, add that other Ranger to my party---Kivan, I think his name is. You're confusing the inns in Beregost (which I LIKE the names of, BTW). Karlat WAS in the inn just behind Silke (the Red Sheaf), but this inn is not "next to" the Jovial Juggler. Been trying to avoid naming his whereabouts in recent posts, but I really don't think the touchiness about "spoilers" should apply in this case. I would've been glad to be told exactly where he is, you still have to find this inn and defeat him, you still get to experience another assassin encounter, the strategy guide mistakenly says he's in the Jovial Juggler, and there are many BG websites that tell you where he REALLY is.

[Grungi]

it is next to the jovial juggler insofar as its closer than any of the other inns, basically i say that because you meet garrick outside jovial juggler then walk down a few metres to the red sheaf next to silke, so sorry its not next to it, its close, i knew where it was anyway [img]tongue.gif[/img]

and i always check battle messages and pause alot in fights, i know when someone turns (happens all the time vs the mermaid sirine types) and gets dire charmed cos i see the spell coming, certainly wasnt that, he actually initiated dialogue then attacked, ah well not that i mind , once i play this one through i will probably uninstall BG saving only the char file.

minsc is a good fighter but the fact that hes a nutter isnt a good idea [img]tongue.gif[/img] though give him the sword of berserking you get off the guard captain and at least you feel like hes roleplaying [img]smile.gif[/img] but dynaheir is better to have than minsc, so rescue her then get minsc lost by a number of methods explained in this forum previously , i dont think getting them killed works cos one goes with the other though maybe im wrong, still if your bloodthirsty go for it [img]smile.gif[/img] i never take any of them these days anyway, depends on your kind of tactics id suggest for a fighter party who gets in there and does damage

kivan
coran
khalid
jahiera
branwen (for the heals etc which you will need if your continually slugging it out)

for a sneaky party who dont get involved in heads up fighting most of the time:

kivan
coran (with bows)
imoen
branwen (monster summons)
xan (monster summons to level3)

though personally i go for a balanced party almost always taking the same shape of

2 fighter types
1 thief
1 mage offensive or with monster summons
2 cleric/druids (heals and monster summons)

for me the way i win almost every battle is monster summoning, they are SO useful, they cant be dire charmed, they cant be petrified and they take all the big hitting first time spells that your party would normally be hit with, plus with an invis or hidden scout you can use monsters to take enemies before you even appear. the other route is fireball spell which most people on this forum seem to use, i've not yet had that spell to use it never needed it so dont believe people when they say its essential.

anyhows theres some strategies for you to try [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[SixOfSpades]

You're right, Seghorn, we can now safely assume that anybody who's reading this far down the thread isn't afraid about being spoiled.

The Inns/Taverns in Beregost:
FELDEPOST'S INN: Big building on the west side of town, facing east. Sign of an eagle's, or possibly griffin's, head out front.
BURNING WIZARD TAVERN: North-central part of town, facing south. Garrick is standing out front.
RED SHEAF: Just east of the Burning Wizard, facing east. Sign of a red leaf on the south wall, Silke waiting by the entrance.
JOVIAL JUGGLER: Southeast part of town, facing south. Signboard of a skull wearing a jester's cap out front.

[ 11-27-2002, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]