clerics suck

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: pcgiant all that doesn't change the fact that they suck! Well Jaheira's dead. Those bloody slavers had some trap in their lair you know and some kind of green death made her melt from the inside out. Portraits gone and all i have left of her is a lock of her hair.. Just when i thought i was going to get laid to.. Bah.. cleric is no substitute for a thief!

A disintegrate trap, you mean? And you're not going to reload?

[Rataxes]

Holy Smite is somewhat comparable to Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting. It does 1-4 Magic dmg per Level to any evil creatures in a pretty large AoE. Abi-Dalzim's does approximately 80% more damage than Holy Smite at equal levels (Abi-Dalzim's averages 4.5/lvl, compared to 2.5/lvl for HS), but don't forget that a cleric will have access to HS far earlier than a mage, as well as always being of a higher level.

Though I think the mage does have far more useful spells than either the cleric or the druid, the ultimate solution is to have both arcane and clerical spells, and then combine it with a fighter [img]smile.gif[/img] Fighter/Mage/Cleric is a truly wicked combo and can use a vast amount of spell combinations as well as protection magics.

[ 01-25-2003, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[Alson]

Originally posted by Rataxes: Holy Smite is somewhat comparable to Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting. It does 1-4 Magic dmg per Level to any evil creatures in a pretty large AoE. Abi-Dalzim's does approximately 80% more damage than Holy Smite at equal levels (Abi-Dalzim's averages 4.5/lvl, compared to 2.5/lvl for HS), but don't forget that a cleric will have access to HS far earlier than a mage, as well as always being of a higher level.

In addition, Holy Smite blinds the victim on a failed save.
This is very powerful, due to the way Blindness is implemented in the Infinity Engine - it reduces viewing range to 1 (which means a monster can barely see the end of it's nose), and forces +10 penalty to THAC0. As a result, Nature's Beauty rocks.

Though I think the mage does have far more useful spells than either the cleric or the druid, ...

I second that. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[karlosovic]

The thing is, any class *can* be soloed with, or if you're making a party, you have 6 positions to fill. why not have a cleric, mage AND Thief ? the thing with a party is mixing and matching the abilities of your crew. A mage might be better (but that's subjective) than a cleric, but a cleric IS useful. Since you have room, why not take both ? An infantry man has less firepower and less armour than a tank, but do you see armies going to war with JUST tanks ? No. because each unit has a tactical role to play, and a good general uses his troops to support and complement each other. It's called 'Tactics'.

[Raistlin Majere]

Also a cleric has acsess to flame strike. thats a powerful offensive spell. Armor of Faith is a nice protective spell. they have acsess to true sight and plenty of other good spell. i do agree though that they arent even close to as intresting or powerful as the mages are.

[Butterfingers]

Mages suck [img]tongue.gif[/img]

A well made Cleric built by a skilled player who knows the spell system is way better. Tons better. As for things like Flame Arrow and other spells like that, Shield of the Archons should soak those up like sponges. Clerics have spells that can and will make them nearly immune to all matter of most things.

We have already been down this path however, I will say no more.

Druids rock as well. Hope you brought your bug spray.

[Alson]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: Mages suck [img]tongue.gif[/img] A well made Cleric built by a skilled player who knows the spell system is way better. Tons better. As for things like Flame Arrow and other spells like that, Shield of the Archons should soak those up like sponges. Clerics have spells that can and will make them nearly immune to all matter of most things. We have already been down this path however, I will say no more.

Yes, we have - and we found out the a Cleric can do about, well... diddly squat against Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting en masse and/or Time Stop. [img]tongue.gif[/img] This led us to the conclusion that BG2 is discriminating against Clerics... remember?

Druids rock as well. Hope you brought your bug spray.

We, they are. Good summoning power, excellent Anti Mages spells and Nature's Beuaty is just... ba-roken!

[Butterfingers]

I know, I know.

I am still really PISSED OFF that they did not include the Cleric's best high level ability, Avatar. I mean, they gave all sorts of broken over powered elements to the other classes, why not give an over powered souped up something to the Cleric.

I mean, hell, with a Cleric, you could utterly demolish anything in ToB or SoA, Avatar renders you immune to things like Time Stop. If you have things, like Time Stop for example, or Spike Traps, or any other numbers of stinky cheese, why not add the stinkiest cheese of them all?

Sure, a Priest of Talos turning into a Storm Elemental would be a little overpowering, but, name something in game that is not overpowering in some fashion. We have an all the cheese you can eat buffet, but, bring on the CHEESE FIESTA!

Did you know that an Avatar of Mystera has an ability called Mystera's Spell Lashing? It releases pretty much every single damaging arcane spell you can think of all at once at a selected target. That's a lot of saving throw rolls to make if you hope to live though that!

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by Grojlach: A disintegrate trap, you mean? And you're not going to reload?

Nope, not going to reload.. Isn't that cheating? The only time i'll reload is if my main character dies.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: quote: Originally posted by Grojlach: A disintegrate trap, you mean? And you're not going to reload?

Nope, not going to reload.. Isn't that cheating? The only time i'll reload is if my main character dies.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure... Following the third edition rules, even if a character is disintegrated, he/she could still be resurrected (check page 246 second column of the PHB for those who don't believe that the dust left behind after a disintegration counts as "a small portion of the body" ). So from that perspective, you should have been able to resurrect Jaheira. If the game was following third edition core rules, you wouldn't be cheating; you'd just be avoiding a bug that would make no sense with those official rules. Her portrait shouldn't have vanished as it did.

But the point is that I've got no idea what the official 2nd edition rules are on resurrection after disintegration, so I can't justify reloading as "not cheating" at this point just yet, as BG2 is based on those 2nd edition rules, not the 3rd edition ones. Does anyone know the official 2nd edition rules on this?

Your equipment would be lost either way, though.

[ 01-25-2003, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]