[column] Why is it 'OK' to nick software?

[johnny]

originally posted by Rokenn Well since he bought the code it was not stealing now was it?

No, he didn't steal DOS, but he DID copy a program which we all know now as Windows. And that's what i was referring to in my earlier post.

[ 07-14-2003, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: johnny ]

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by johnny: quote: originally posted by Rokenn Well since he bought the code it was not stealing now was it?

No, he didn't steal DOS, but he DID copy a program which we all know now as Windows. And that's what i was referring to in my earlier post. [/QUOTE]Both Bill and Steve(Apple) ripped the idea of windows off from the guys at Parc Xerox. They also stole the mouse from them. Steve just got his to market first.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: Or shrewd business sense If the 'seller' had not been so greedy they would have made out better. Personally I would have just asked for a big stack of MS stock [img]smile.gif[/img]

Misrepresentation is a type of theft, is it not? Or are we saying a thief is no good but a swindler is okay? They're both rogue classes.
[/QUOTE]Yes it is. It would really depend on if that was the offer or if they seller said that is what they wanted. I do not recall, was there ever a lawsuit filed regarding that?

And let us not forget, when M$ trains its eye on you, it's not like you have a choice. You usually take what's offered, with just a little wiggle room for negotiation. They are "deals you can't refuse" if you know what I mean.

Did you ever see the Simpsons ep where Homer started a dotcom that bill came to buy out, and instead of getting a pile of money Bill had a couple of guys trash Homer's 'office'?

[Animal]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Animal: Either you advocate stealing or you don't. There's no middle ground here, there's no fence to sit on, it's cut and dry.

I disagree. [/QUOTE]WTF?

So let me get this straight, it's okay to steal, but only from certain people? I can't even begin to attempt comprehension of that.

[Animal]

So how exactly did this turn into a Bill Gates bash?

From what I've read so far, it seems like it's okay to steal as long as it's from Bill Gates because...blah, blah, blah.

Let me attempt to get my point accross here.

Even if Bill Gates was to break into your house and steal your computer, nobody has any right to steal from MS. Period. End of sentence. Trying to justify theft based upon the actions of the individual you stole from still doesn't change the fact that: IT'S STILL STEALING.

I don't give a crap how you justify it, or even why you justify it. Turning the whole software piracy issue around and blaming it on Gates, doesn't relieve you of your moral and legal obligation not to steal.

Does anyone remember the original D&D? Not AD&D, but the original. Four classes, one race. Fighter, Cleric, Magic User and Thief. Notice how thief has now been changed to rogue? Fantasy and fiction may paint a romantic, adventurous picture of the rogue, but this isn't fantasy and it isn't fiction, it's real life.

I'm not religous, but even from the beginning it was layed out quite clearly, "Thou shalt not steal." No exceptions, no excuses.

[pritchke]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Bill Gates acquired MS Explorer for very little money -- on the promise of royalties on profit from sale of the program. Then he gave it away for free. No profits, no royalties. If that's not close enough to theft, I don't know what is.

Most good con-artist do get away with lying, and semi lying to make a profit. As a judge I would have ruled that the royalties should come from Windows itself as MS Explorer is an integral part of the package. Without it Windows would not even sell. We are talking Windows Explorer and not the Internet Explorer correct?

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Animal: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Animal: Either you advocate stealing or you don't. There's no middle ground here, there's no fence to sit on, it's cut and dry.

I disagree. [/QUOTE]WTF?

So let me get this straight, it's okay to steal, but only from certain people? I can't even begin to attempt comprehension of that. [/QUOTE]Sorry. I just disagree. If you can find a way to steal back what little bit is left of all that pension money from Enron's bankruptcy, you will be my hero.

Look, two wrongs don't make a right, right? Not always. You injure me, and I have been harmed to the tune of $250K let's say. Now, I take you to court, and in order to right the wrong, the court takes $250K from you and gives it to me. The only difference had I sought the $250K from you through theft is whether it is a state-sponsored remedy or whether it is self-help.

Ask Jean Valjean if stealing is always wrong. What's a loaf of bread worth?

Your world may be full of absolutes. I live in the real world. There are no absolutes. Except to say "there is no middle ground, it is cut and dry." That is almost always absolutely wrong.

[ 07-14-2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[johnny]

originally posted by Animal I'm not religous, but even from the beginning it was layed out quite clearly, "Thou shalt not steal." No exceptions, no excuses.

What ? Didn't like Robin Hood ?

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Sorry. I just disagree. If you can find a way to steal back what little bit is left of all that pension money from Enron's bankruptcy, you will be my hero.

Why? Enron made it's money by robbing other people through manipulating energy markets. I say let the people that owned Enron stock rot [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Animal]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Animal: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Animal: Either you advocate stealing or you don't. There's no middle ground here, there's no fence to sit on, it's cut and dry.

I disagree. [/QUOTE]WTF?

So let me get this straight, it's okay to steal, but only from certain people? I can't even begin to attempt comprehension of that. [/QUOTE]Sorry. I just disagree. If you can find a way to steal back what little bit is left of all that pension money from Enron's bankruptcy, you will be my hero.

Look, two wrongs don't make a right, right? Not always. You injure me, and I have been harmed to the tune of $250K let's say. Now, I take you to court, and in order to right the wrong, the court takes $250K from you and gives it to me. The only difference had I sought the $250K from you through theft is whether it is a state-sponsored remedy or whether it is self-help.

Ask Jean Valjean if stealing is always wrong. What's a loaf of bread worth?

Your world may be full of absolutes. I live in the real world. There are no absolutes. Except to say "there is no middle ground, it is cut and dry." That is almost always absolutely wrong. [/QUOTE]The difference being, there is a legal way to get your $250K and an illegal way. As a lawyer, I would think that you could appreciate the need for such laws, lest we end up with complete chaos. Giving people the right to take the law into their own hands is a recipe for disaster, not to mention will put you in the unemployment line.

Like I've said before, either you advocate stealing or you do not, but you can't pick and choose who it is okay to steal from and who it isn't much the same as you can't pick which laws you want to abide by and which ones you don't, it's part of living in a civilized society.

Justifying theft by claiming "he started it first," is ridiculous and should be left on the playground where it belongs.