Pierce magic on Clay golem - newly found bug ??

daan · 01-16-2002, 08:27 AM

Pierce magic is supposed to lower an enemy's Magic Resistance by 1% per level of the caster. (It's a lesser version of pierce shield)
But when i used it on a clay golem, no MR was deducted ....
Is this a bug ?

I allready checked Baldurdash, they dont have any such bug reported, neither are clay golems immune to any spell-level, so ...
what's wrong ??

Plz, some advice :*(

Azred · 01-16-2002, 01:20 PM

In general, spells have no effect upon golems; this includes spells that might normally reduce magic resistance. When you see golems and they become hostile, simply gang up on them and physically defeat them.

Amergin · 01-17-2002, 12:49 AM

i dont know about azred's golems, but ive taken out adamantite golems with sequenced lower resistances and magic missiles. there is no way to deny magic resistance lowering spells; they would be pointless if there were. the only thing that stops them is a spell shield, which golems, of course, do not have. i have no idea why your clay golems are resisting it.

however... if you are casting Pierce Magic from the Wand of Spell Striking i CAN tell you why it isn't working. an item has two ways of "casting" a spell depending on how the designers worked it: you can "cast spell as mage/cleric" such as how Daystar casts Sunfire or you can just duplicate the effects as is done with the Wand of Fire. the problem arises specifically with ranged magical attacks as there is a "damage type" parameter and for most things ranged, including weapons, this gets set as "piercing" so anything immune to piercing "damage" would also be immune to a magical effect using this parameter.

Dundee Slaytern · 01-17-2002, 02:44 AM

Question... did a gray sphere appear on the Golem when you casted the spell? If you did, then fret not, the Golem's MR did go down.

Strangely enough, the battletext does not list the effect for both Pierce Magic/Shield spells.

Glorfindel · 01-17-2002, 06:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:

Strangely enough, the battletext does not list the effect for both Pierce Magic/Shield spells.

????????

??????

That must b a bug in ur game.... it certainly tells me how much the targets magic resistance is lowered by....

Dundee Slaytern · 01-17-2002, 07:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Glorfindel:
???????? ??????
That must b a bug in ur game.... it certainly tells me how much the targets magic resistance is lowered by....

Sorry, I should have clarified. This only occurs on certain creatures.

The rule of thumb is, so long as you see the gray sphere, all is well.

ToB Spoiler
~~
~~
~~
~~
If you cast Pierce Shield on Demogorgan, there is no battletext, but his MR is lowered. Same applies to the Ravager. I am unsure about Golems, since I usually use Lower Resistance, but it may apply to them as well.

strangelove · 01-18-2002, 07:01 AM

I'm curious if the infinity engine treats magic immunity and magic resistance differently. I'll have to check the old Monster Manual when I get home to verify, but I believe clay golems are actually immune to magic. This implies there is no resistance to lower, it just doesn't affect them at all, period. I do know they are traditionally the toughest of the golems, because very few things can hurt them (only blunt magical items +2 or better iirc) and they can haste themselves. In BG2, Iron and Adamantite Golems are bigger, with more hp, but clay golems in good old PnP AD&D are very, very nasty.

Of course, it could just be a bug....now where did I put those 2e books anyway?

First post here too btw...nice board, with a pleasant lack of Trolls [img]smile.gif[/img]

-sb

Glorfindel · 01-18-2002, 07:13 AM

I have killed clay golems mutiple times through Lower resistance/ pierce sheild then offensive magic, so it must b a bug 4 u, or anotha good bug 4 me

Glorfindel · 01-18-2002, 07:15 AM

O and by the way.... Welcome to IW StrangeGlove [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]
[img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Glorfindel ]

Vaskez · 01-18-2002, 07:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by strangelove:
I'm curious if the infinity engine treats magic immunity and magic resistance differently. I'll have to check the old Monster Manual when I get home to verify, but I believe clay golems are actually immune to magic. This implies there is no resistance to lower, it just doesn't affect them at all, period. I do know they are traditionally the toughest of the golems, because very few things can hurt them (only blunt magical items +2 or better iirc) and they can haste themselves. In BG2, Iron and Adamantite Golems are bigger, with more hp, but clay golems in good old PnP AD&D are very, very nasty.
-sb

I can tell you that IE does in fact treat MR and Magic Immunity differently. MR is given as a percentage and is stored as a creature statistic, while Magic immunity is applied as a permanent spell effect onto a creature with a parameter setting the level of spell to be immune to. For example, Liches have 5 effects making them immune to spell levels 1 to 5. TO be honest I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think Clay Golems only have magic resistance. I'd have to check when I get home.
How do you know his MR wasn't lowered anyway? Maybe you lowered it to 80% and he still resisted your spell (very likely).
The only way you could check in-game is to press ctrl+q on him when cheats are enabled and get him into your party and check his stats.
Pierce Magic should ignore MR and I doubt there is a bug in your game because then others would have found this bug long before (remember the game has been out for nearly 1.5 years.)

01-16-2002, 08:27 AM	#1
daan Silver Dragon Join Date: August 25, 2001 Location: - Age: 40 Posts: 1,644	Pierce magic is supposed to lower an enemy's Magic Resistance by 1% per level of the caster. (It's a lesser version of pierce shield) But when i used it on a clay golem, no MR was deducted .... Is this a bug ? I allready checked Baldurdash, they dont have any such bug reported, neither are clay golems immune to any spell-level, so ... what's wrong ?? Plz, some advice :*( __________________ <strong> Odi et Amo. Quare id faciam facisse requires ? Nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior </strong><br /><br /><strong> Amantem cogit amare magis, sed bene velle minus </strong>

01-16-2002, 01:20 PM	#2
Azred Drow Priestess Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex Age: 55 Posts: 4,037	In general, spells have no effect upon golems; this includes spells that might normally reduce magic resistance. When you see golems and they become hostile, simply gang up on them and physically defeat them. __________________ Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

01-17-2002, 12:49 AM	#3
Amergin Zhentarim Guard Join Date: May 28, 2001 Location: memphis,tn Posts: 375	i dont know about azred's golems, but ive taken out adamantite golems with sequenced lower resistances and magic missiles. there is no way to deny magic resistance lowering spells; they would be pointless if there were. the only thing that stops them is a spell shield, which golems, of course, do not have. i have no idea why your clay golems are resisting it. however... if you are casting Pierce Magic from the Wand of Spell Striking i CAN tell you why it isn't working. an item has two ways of "casting" a spell depending on how the designers worked it: you can "cast spell as mage/cleric" such as how Daystar casts Sunfire or you can just duplicate the effects as is done with the Wand of Fire. the problem arises specifically with ranged magical attacks as there is a "damage type" parameter and for most things ranged, including weapons, this gets set as "piercing" so anything immune to piercing "damage" would also be immune to a magical effect using this parameter. __________________ blessed are the cheesemakers

01-17-2002, 06:57 AM	#5
Glorfindel Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: January 9, 2002 Location: Mt. Gambier, Australia Age: 38 Posts: 3,337	quote: Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: Strangely enough, the battletext does not list the effect for both Pierce Magic/Shield spells. ???????? ?????? That must b a bug in ur game.... it certainly tells me how much the targets magic resistance is lowered by....

01-17-2002, 07:01 AM	#6
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	quote: Originally posted by Glorfindel: ???????? ?????? That must b a bug in ur game.... it certainly tells me how much the targets magic resistance is lowered by.... Sorry, I should have clarified. This only occurs on certain creatures. The rule of thumb is, so long as you see the gray sphere, all is well. ToB Spoiler ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ If you cast Pierce Shield on Demogorgan, there is no battletext, but his MR is lowered. Same applies to the Ravager. I am unsure about Golems, since I usually use Lower Resistance, but it may apply to them as well.

01-17-2002, 02:44 AM	#4
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	Question... did a gray sphere appear on the Golem when you casted the spell? If you did, then fret not, the Golem's MR did go down. Strangely enough, the battletext does not list the effect for both Pierce Magic/Shield spells.

01-18-2002, 07:01 AM	#7
strangelove Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: January 18, 2002 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 8	I'm curious if the infinity engine treats magic immunity and magic resistance differently. I'll have to check the old Monster Manual when I get home to verify, but I believe clay golems are actually immune to magic. This implies there is no resistance to lower, it just doesn't affect them at all, period. I do know they are traditionally the toughest of the golems, because very few things can hurt them (only blunt magical items +2 or better iirc) and they can haste themselves. In BG2, Iron and Adamantite Golems are bigger, with more hp, but clay golems in good old PnP AD&D are very, very nasty. Of course, it could just be a bug....now where did I put those 2e books anyway? First post here too btw...nice board, with a pleasant lack of Trolls [img]smile.gif[/img] -sb __________________ You have moved your mouse, Windows will now reboot.

01-18-2002, 07:13 AM	#8
Glorfindel Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: January 9, 2002 Location: Mt. Gambier, Australia Age: 38 Posts: 3,337	I have killed clay golems mutiple times through Lower resistance/ pierce sheild then offensive magic, so it must b a bug 4 u, or anotha good bug 4 me

01-18-2002, 07:15 AM	#9
Glorfindel Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: January 9, 2002 Location: Mt. Gambier, Australia Age: 38 Posts: 3,337	O and by the way.... Welcome to IW StrangeGlove [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] [ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Glorfindel ]

01-18-2002, 07:55 AM	#10
Vaskez Takhisis Follower Join Date: April 30, 2001 Location: szép Magyarország (well not right now) Posts: 5,089	quote: Originally posted by strangelove: I'm curious if the infinity engine treats magic immunity and magic resistance differently. I'll have to check the old Monster Manual when I get home to verify, but I believe clay golems are actually immune to magic. This implies there is no resistance to lower, it just doesn't affect them at all, period. I do know they are traditionally the toughest of the golems, because very few things can hurt them (only blunt magical items +2 or better iirc) and they can haste themselves. In BG2, Iron and Adamantite Golems are bigger, with more hp, but clay golems in good old PnP AD&D are very, very nasty. -sb I can tell you that IE does in fact treat MR and Magic Immunity differently. MR is given as a percentage and is stored as a creature statistic, while Magic immunity is applied as a permanent spell effect onto a creature with a parameter setting the level of spell to be immune to. For example, Liches have 5 effects making them immune to spell levels 1 to 5. TO be honest I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think Clay Golems only have magic resistance. I'd have to check when I get home. How do you know his MR wasn't lowered anyway? Maybe you lowered it to 80% and he still resisted your spell (very likely). The only way you could check in-game is to press ctrl+q on him when cheats are enabled and get him into your party and check his stats. Pierce Magic should ignore MR and I doubt there is a bug in your game because then others would have found this bug long before (remember the game has been out for nearly 1.5 years.) __________________ Too set in his ways to ever relate If he could set that aside, there'd be heaven to pay But weathered and aged, time swept him to grave Love conquers all? Damn, I'd say that area's gray

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