Party formation questions, all you studs who know alot feel free to comment:)

[Mr Creosote]

Guess I am like you - I restart dozens of times, cant seem to make my mind up [img]smile.gif[/img]

Ive been playing Wiz 8 with loads of different party formations, gradually whittling them down in size and latest is a solo character, thats a lot of fun but of course you miss out on the variety of PCs.

From my experience, and relating it to some of your potential ideas, this is what I have found that may or may not be of use to you:
- Fairie Ninja sucks big time. Big change from Wiz 7. Even with great stats and CoC a decent fighter will out perform any Ninja.
- Gadgeteers suck. They are a lot of fun though! but having to play 90% of the game with them dragging their heels before they come into their own really is taking character development a bit far!
I feel its question of playing one for the fun of it but be prepared to have to keep them alive for a lot of the game.
- Bards rock. I usually hate bards but in Wiz 8 they are possibly the best char of all (I am playing a solo bard at the moment) - amazing "spells" from musical instruments and properly developed are great melee fighters.
- Rogues are VERY strong in Wiz 8 - their backstab works great and a properly developed Rogue is awesome as a melle fighter.
- Offensive spell casting is a waste of time, really, I know thats hard to believe but spell casting in Wiz 8 is all about buffing and hindering. Apart from some must have protection spells magic isnt so much use in Wiz 8. So the usual pick of having a mage and priest is a waste of time - one Bishop will do the lot for you.
- Wiz 8 is about melee. Ranged attacks add but they pale when compared to melee, ok in the realy game but later on when you have 20 baddies with 300+ HPs firing off a few 20 damage arrows aint much use.
- Dont underestimate the difference race makes when selecting a char, with some exceptions Hobbits perform well in any role. Elf Bishop, Lizard fighter, Mook Ranger (for a huge sword you get in the middle game specific to Mooks only), and all others chars as Hobbits wont go far wrong.
- Stealth is very important, as is speed and dexterity.
- Pick you char stats and focus on those, specialists work well in this game, generalists perform badly. Vanilla chars in general are better than Hybrids.
- My experience so far is the best chars are a Lizard fighter, Hobbit Bard and Mook Ranger. Samurai, Ninja, Monk can all be developed well but are not as good as those staple chars, also levels are tight in this game and vanilla chars get faster levels, and thus more stats, not to be under-estimated.
- I didnt like the RPCs and would rather put the stats into my own party.
- If I was playing again with a full party of 6 this is what I would go for:
Lizzie Fighter
Hobbit Thief
Mook Ranger
Hobbit Bard
Hobbit Gadgeteer
Elf Bishop
That covers just about all you will need and you will be able to use just about every item you find in the game (except for Coc and if thats important to you then replace one of the melle chars with fairie Ninja and concentrate on their stealth to get a decent AC).

Anyway, thats a long and very subjective ramble!!! Just my 2 cents

PS I forgot to mention thats crits are a waste of time. Even with high stats you will only get a certain percentage of crits - they are a bonus but not worth developing your chars specifically for. Here's how it goes - later in the game you will be up against small armies of guys lobbing spells and missiles and strong melee at you. They need to be taken down, and relying on crits is suicide, you need to be melee fighting them and hitting them for 300+ a round with each melee char, hindering the rest with spells and bard instruments. I tried a pack of Samurai, Nija, rangers and while they could just about cope their crits were just not up to it.

[ 03-07-2002: Message edited by: Mr Creosote ]

[elbarono]

It seems like there's some misinformation being spread here -- the 25% bonus does apply to the primary statistic no matter how high the "raw" score goes. I.E. if you have a Valk with 100% polearm skill, her effective skill will be 125. 125 is the highest a skill can go.

This is one of the problems with changing classes, you lose that 25% bonus. If you changed classes from a bard to a thief, for example, with 100 music, you'd lose the 25% bonus and you'd start messing up your spells a little more.

You can actually see primary stats improving beyond 100, it will say after a battle (XXX's close combat skill improved to 122) if XXX is a fighter, etc.

--Adam

[aargh]

Dunno. Lots of food for thought there.
Seems I always end up converting the front line to fighters in the end. That way they can use ranged weapons and magic at distance, and slug it out up close. The folks in the back, in my case a mage, a psionic (who has turned out to be something of a loud-mouthed wimp) and a gagetter. Since the psionic happens to be a Mook, he's about to get a promotion (or drafted if you prefer) to the Infantry.
If/when I do a second run through it'll probably be:
Ninja
Bard
Bishop
Ranger
Fighter
Gagetter

Good luck

[Gimli]

I'm having alot of success with this formation/party right now, see one change coming to it eventually (will swap in RFS81 for Sparkle and have him use a Bo for another extended weapon):

- no one in the front rank

- left flank has Vi w/polearm + bow and a dwarf fighter also w/polearm + bow

- right flank has a Liz fighter w/polearm + bow and will have RFS81 with a Bo + sling eventually, now has Sparkle with an axe + bow

- middle rank has a mook ranger with a sword/shield + bow, human ninja with dual nunchuka and dual throwing weapons, and a felpurr bard with a sword/shield + bow

- rear rank has a elf bishop with a staff and sling (who is developing all 4 books with effort but very nicely, the bishop class is waaaay too powerful [img]smile.gif[/img]


Basically when they get in melee range they have great coverage, having all the extended weapons in the flanks is great. But I would say the formation really depends on what kind of characters and which weapons they are using.

What I like about this party vs the last one I ran (Sam/Valk/Monk/Gadg/Ran/Bish/Saxx-RFS/Vi as a Priest) is there is way less effort in encounters, less spell targeting especially - essentially let them go at it with ranged or melee and they are supported enough by the bishop and bard kicking in with music. And they all are developing 2-way (melee and ranged) into fighting characters except the Bishop who uses spells almost exclusively.

[Raistilyn]

Alright, sitting at the GF's house and just dreaming about what groups i want to have , cept when im with her of course [img]smile.gif[/img]

gona go with Fighter
Bard
Ranger
Bishop
At this point im still not sure....do i go with a monk that can act as a tank kinda, but will never get to use many of the cool items i come acroos? or do i use a ninja? If i go ninja i probably should go with a front line ninja, no? If so then ill go a fairy ninja and go with the CoC, or would it be wiser to put ninja in 2nd row tossing thowing items...but will i have enough ammo along the game to be a suffient thrower?


2nd slot..dum de dum...Maybe i can go with Valk, and let her dabble in magic since she should kinda have some skill points free, just close combat and polearm right? Then my bishop can worry about less magic. If not, then maybe a sam? Or do i be abit boring and just go another fighter? 2fighters up front, with possibley the farie ninja holding her own with a CoC, then the ranger tossing arrows, and the bishop and bard taking care of all the other work.

basically just looking for more opinions i guess guys heh, if your bored of course. Mainly on ninja's, valks, sams, and if its worth anything of going with one of the 4 main castors ? Also if you could enlighten me on the benifit of having no one in the front row id appreacite it,, thanks.

[Annheiser]

Just to let you know, formations are very over-rated in this game as mobs will start to become long-range/spell casting exclusive as the game progresses on, and there will be times you can be flanked.

With regards to monk and ninjas, Monks have more armor variety then do Ninjas. They'll probably end up with way more AC. The cool weapons you come across will be mostly swords and polearms so you don't have to worry about your monk. Cool armor are for classes (other then rogue) not relying on stealth. You'll have plenty of ammo to work with for your ninja.

The only advantage of not having a front line is that you can have more people go into short range combat. With a front line, you only have three short range players that can hit with enemies in front. If you put them back to center, you can include flanks and have them all fight short range. This is a plus because there are too many good short range weapons not to include them in your fight.

I generally run without front or rear lines. People placed in rear lines are always facing with their backs to the front until they attack by melee. This can be a problem with archers hitting you.

BTW, don't make a faerie ninja, heh. Most of the people just make one to exploit the CoC weapon. Bleh. If you want to go with Faeries, make them a Bishop.

[Viscer Spineshank]

I didn't have time to read the above posts....but here is my experience.

My base group is
Fighter
Lord
Thief
Ranger
Mage
Bishop

My usual add characters are Vi (Valk) and Madras (Gadgeteer)

I would never replace my Lord or Fighter.....having these two are great....I don't usually use my lords healing etc stuff....but he seems to attack more frequently per round with basically the same stats as my fighter. I has the blood lust sword....so they both beserk.

My thief is nice...I pick pocketed my way to sucess....though a Ninja/Bard can pickpocket.....as well as picking locks by a gadgeteer.
I had tried a Ninja in a previous game, got him to about lvl 12.....and he basically sucked. I didn't know about the cane of corp at the time and everyone else was crit hitting but him....and his crit hit skill was like 75......I think in his career he maybe instant killed 5 things.....something just wasn't right. Some say that at higher lvl's, they do much better....who knows.

If you can get a bard up to a high level of pick pockets and a Ninja in lock picks...then you can fill the roll of my rogue. The thing about bards.....I have seen a butt load of musical instruments....remember when creating a bard....str and vit are important....otherwise you'll only be able to use an instrument a few times per battle without loosing all your stamina.

My ranger.....I would switch him out. There are a few nice items that are ranger only...but to be honest....there are lots of classes out there that can use bows...this slow could have been done a bit better.

Casters....
I have found that in wizardry 8....offensive magic pretty much sucks. Unless your many levels higher than the mobs....the offensive magic damage just doesn't seem worth it. It seemed that the game was about putting up defensive spells and then buffing the characters during battle as well as debuffing the monsters or incapacitating them with one form or other....then just bash them with your fighters.

I have a mage and a bishop....if I was to do it again I would have done 2 bishops....given the large amounts of spells you can get...my bishop, at 2 levels lower than my mage, has twice as many spell points in each area. The most important thing to remember about the bishops....that I wasn't really clear on....was to focus your points in the main magic class....not the elements...ie Wizardry, Divine, Psionics, Alchemy. Typically, people will concentrate on three lines.....I worked on all four. While you practice spells...your fire, water, air, earth, divinity will go up.

The gadgeteer is fun....there are lots of items/combinations of stuff out there to play with...but the same rule applies.....stamina is important. Though there are more instruments out there.

If I was to do it again?
Fighter
Lord (just because I didn't want to boring fighters)
Ninja (faerie)
Bard (bow user)
Bishop
Bishop

Vi as secondary (Valk)
Madras as secondary (Gadgeteer)

[Raistilyn]

Visc, thanks for the post [img]smile.gif[/img]

I think ill be using the ranger just for sake of auto search, and the fact he is better then other's with bow for ranged stuff.

Fighter
Ninja
????? my front three

Bard
Ranger
Bishop

So know i have to fill the last spot.
Samaria, monk, Lord, valk........overall damage wise, who puts out the most??? Also of the 4 do any have spells that have any real use, or just mainly to dink around with? Who is best tank? Im so bored, i want my darn game [img]smile.gif[/img] Until i have it, you can entertain me with tid bits, and opinions plz [img]smile.gif[/img] thanks

[GenXCub]

Of Samurai, Valk, Lord, Monk you have different combinations, and it REALLY depends on your play style.

As far as Damage Dealing, they're all fairly equal. I'd side towards the Lord because of the Dual Weapons bonus, but no character in the game can compare to a Samurai Lightning Strike (when you're lucky enough to get them). Even at Level 12 wielding Bloodlust, my Samurai once Berserked and hit 7x (extra attack from Bloodlust, high Sword skill + Lightning Strike). Doing about 30 per hit, he pretty much took out the Rapax Scount we were fighting. Samurai also get the Critical Strike, a plus over the Lord and Valk (but you can find weapons with %Kill to balance that).

Monks are a mixed bag for me, you lose the "find the best items" aspect of the games since you're really just using Robes, your Hands and Feet, and sometimes a Zatoichi Bo, but you attack more than the other characters, meaning more chance for a Critical.

Valks don't die easily because of their cheat death ability (just make sure to have lots of stamina), but that's about all I can see as a plus for them.

Lords and Valks can use the best Weapons and Armor in the game, making them quite easy to shop for, they have that over the Samurai and Monk.

As for spell power, Samurai are best because they have 2 of the most common Buff spells (enchanted Blade, Missile Shield) that will free up spell points for your Bishop. the Monk's psionics are easy to build up as well with Mindread. There aren't as many useful priest spells, I don't really cast heal wounds with my Lord, I leave that to my Bard, it's quicker.

For your 3rd spot up front, I'd say go with the Samurai or Lord. You can recruit Vi and RFS-81 for a Valk and Monk later on. You may want to recruit Madras for awhile though to use his Engineering skills to build some Tripleshot crossbows for the party.