Matrix Revolutions - Spoiler Thread

[shadowhound]

If you have not seen the final installation of th Matrix trilogy then I suggest you leave now because reading this thread will probably spoil it for you.
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Ok so what did you think of the movie now you have seen it?
I enjoyed it and thought it was much, MUCH better then the second movie.

I was expecting the albino bob marly brothers (AKA the twins) to make a reappearence in the movie, ah well. At least the Mera... Miravin... french guy came back and I found out who the guy in the train station in the game was.

[Calaethis Dragonsbane]

I think the film sucked, overall. It made little sense - well, thats not quite accurate. What they did made sense - but there was still a big "why" to as they did it. For example, Neo says to the machine head (for lack of a better name), "Peace." Yeah great. Neo kills Smith, - and the threat for the machines is removed. Why didn't the machines turn on the humans? As for peace - how the hell could there be peace? The machines still have their fields. The only ones who would be free are those in Zion. Oh and now Neo's dead, the machines have nothing to stop them from destroying Zion. I also have to wonder, if Neo and Trinity managed to get their ship up past the clouds to where the sun was - why couldn't the machines use solar satilites or some such? I also want to know why Smith didn't go after the french guy - if Sereph, Morpheaus and Trinity could break into it - just three of them - why the hell didn't Smith go after them? All in all, lots of unanswered questions. The superman syndrom got way out of hand as well. Smith and Neo flying and fighting - why? They both just get back up again and continue to fight. Boring. And the film was really predictable. When the ship crashes - its obvious Trinity's dead. Her melodramatic speech killed off any feelings except boredom and "get on with it.". And once Trinity is dead, its obvious Neo is as well - since she was the only thing he truly cared about. All in all, very disappointing. They could have made so much more out of it. The first matrix is definately the best of the lot - storywise at least.

[Harkoliar]

i agree with alot of what you said CD.. i mean.. in the end.. the Guy (who looks like KFC) spoke with the oracle and he said that it is "natural" to release the human farms.. so what happens now with human vs machines? i dont think they can fully co-exist. and another thing is i tend to agree with the philosophy of balance.. but neo allowing himself to lose in order to win? gee thats so wierd.. so how did smith lose? like CD so many wierd questions. also, i didnt see any nice fight scenes anymore INSIDE the matrix.. except for a short fight scene of the trio, morph, trin and chinese guy (forgot his name)

the defense of the city was cool though. although it was very funny that only the ships had any emp discharge and there was non in the city.. i mean the city IS supplying the ships right?

i didnt like the ending so much because of so such a vague ending.

[Timber Loftis]

The whole reasons the machines fought man and enslaved him to begin with dates back to the creation of the nation "01" as a haven for machines in the Middle East. One machine rebelled, killing its master, and people starting destroying their machines in a mass genocide-like manner.

01 became a powerful country, outcompeting the humans, and gaining recognition under the UN. Then, war broke out, with man fighting against machines. The harvesters, in fact, were originally war machines.

Anyway, with this kind of history between the two, I don't see how any peaceful amicable resolution is possible.

(all info taken from The Animatrix, which I highly recommend)

[Dreamer128]

Originally posted by Harkoliar: the defense of the city was cool though. although it was very funny that only the ships had any emp discharge and there was non in the city.. i mean the city IS supplying the ships right?

I was wondering the same thing. If a single EMP charge was able to take down an intire army of machines, why not install a few in the city?
Besides that, I really liked the movie. Quite suprising.
About the machines keeping their part of the deal.. are they able to lie? When the Oracle askes the Architect if she has his word, he reply's with "what do you think I am, human?". Besides, those that have seen the Animatrix will know that the Machines tried to co-excist with humanity before. Something that has always suprised me, by the way, is the fact that our Machines never found an alternative power source. I mean, this is a few hundred years in the future, surely they must be able to come up with something...

Shadowhound: I think the Albino brothers died in the second part, when Morpheus blew up their car.

[Dreamer128]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: The whole reasons the machines fought man and enslaved him to begin with dates back to the creation of the nation "01" as a haven for machines in the Middle East. One machine rebelled, killing its master, and people starting destroying their machines in a mass genocide-like manner. 01 became a powerful country, outcompeting the humans, and gaining recognition under the UN. Then, war broke out, with man fighting against machines. The harvesters, in fact, were originally war machines. Anyway, with this kind of history between the two, I don't see how any peaceful amicable resolution is possible.

That may be true, but do machines have emotions? Is revenge not a human thing? I recall that the Humans attacked the machines first. The machines only fought for their survival, and is making a deal with Neo not the exact same thing?
Besides, the humans don't even remember why the war started in the first place.

[ 11-06-2003, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Dreamer128 ]

[dplax]

Originally posted by Calaethis Dragonsbane: I think the film sucked, overall. It made little sense - well, thats not quite accurate. What they did made sense - but there was still a big "why" to as they did it. For example, Neo says to the machine head (for lack of a better name), "Peace." Yeah great. Neo kills Smith, - and the threat for the machines is removed. Why didn't the machines turn on the humans? As for peace - how the hell could there be peace? The machines still have their fields. The only ones who would be free are those in Zion. Oh and now Neo's dead, the machines have nothing to stop them from destroying Zion. I also have to wonder, if Neo and Trinity managed to get their ship up past the clouds to where the sun was - why couldn't the machines use solar satilites or some such? I also want to know why Smith didn't go after the french guy - if Sereph, Morpheaus and Trinity could break into it - just three of them - why the hell didn't Smith go after them? All in all, lots of unanswered questions. The superman syndrom got way out of hand as well. Smith and Neo flying and fighting - why? They both just get back up again and continue to fight. Boring. And the film was really predictable. When the ship crashes - its obvious Trinity's dead. Her melodramatic speech killed off any feelings except boredom and "get on with it.". And once Trinity is dead, its obvious Neo is as well - since she was the only thing he truly cared about. All in all, very disappointing. They could have made so much more out of it. The first matrix is definately the best of the lot - storywise at least.

Does Neo really die? I got the impression that the other characters Smith copied came back at the end, even though they were destroyed in the same way Neo was. I myself found the film quite good, better than the second film, but nothing, nothing can beat the first one. It is absolutely the best.
And anoter question could be if NEo once revived Trinity then why doesn't he pull out those bars or whatever, and revive her again?

[Dreamer128]

Maybe he can revive her mind, but not her body. I think his powers in the 'real world' only apply on machines.

[Legolas]

Regarding the coexistence, yes it's possible. The machines need humans to survive (the fields) just as the humans need machines to survive (machines of Zion, as was mentioned in Reloaded). Now that there is peace, those in the fields/matrix who wanted out would be released. This implies that there are other humans staying behind to provide energy to the machines.

Concerning Smith and the Merovignian, appearantly he did turn him eventually just like everyone else. But unlike to Neo et al, he wasn't particularly important to the agent where at the same time he had a role to play in the plot (Just like the blinding of Neo was done only for symbolism, to show off their computer animations and to cover up the fact that Reaves couldn't produce any tears at the one time he was supposed to cry ( [img]tongue.gif[/img] ), it didn't have much of a function).

Neo's losing leading to a win probably works because the Architect used Smith to balance out his 'equation'. Put simply, xNeo = ySmith, if xNeo = 0 then ySmith = 0 as well, so if Neo goes, then so does Smith.

The trouble with installing EMPs in the city is the aforementioned dependance of the humans on machines. Firing an EMP in the city shuts down those machines, and is therefore rather counter-productive. They are only really useful away from other 'friendly' machines.

BTW, the 'big head' did try bluffing/lying, so I don't see why they should keep their word. Revenge... is just a word

[Link]

Wow [img]smile.gif[/img] I just saw the movie (approximately half an hour ago it ended) and I can say that I'm not that impressed. Rather disappointed I must add. I expected something more after (especially) the first movie, and was waiting for a lot of answers for Reloaded. Some scenes were really really bad IMHO, such as the melodramatic ending/death scene of Trinity and the (too much extended) battle between Neo and Smith.

This movie just left too many questions behind. Questions such as: "How could Smith be outside the Matrix in the body of Bane?" (never explained, only Smith saying "It is true, Mr Anderson" comes close. And why the hell doesn't Neo realise it's Smith? Is there anyone else who has called him Mr Anderson like that?!?!), "I thought the skies were blackened (Animatrix anyone?), but there is still some clear sky left, as we could see. Why didn't the machines use that as an energy source? (CB had the same idea I had)". "Why the hell didn't Smith realise what Neo was up to, when he was taking him over? I mean: he had the eyes of the Oracle after all!" Just a couple of many questions.

To answer some of the questions stated here:

- Legolas: I think you equation idea is pretty good, although I myself had a different theory concerning the end. I thought that Neo had made a deal with the Master Machine: if he would fail, he would die. When Smith took over Neo, Neo obviously failed, and thus had to die according to the deal. What Smith failed to realise however, is that with Neo dying OUTSIDE the Matrix, Smith would die as well. Don't know if this is correct, but it was just a theory [img]smile.gif[/img]
A friend of mine came with a different theory immediately, close to Legolas' equation idea. His solution came from basic science: put a negative and a positive element together and they resolve each other. In other words:
xNeo = 1 and ySmith = -1. With the fusion of both, you get zNeoSmith = xNeo + ySmith = 1 + -1 = 0. Smith signed his own death papers by taking over Neo.
- Human emotions are just words (as said in the movie by the Indian dude in the trainstation). The meaning behind the words is what makes it something. Just because "Love" is a human emotion according to Neo, it doesn't mean the concept of "love" (share a deep bond with someone) isn't reachable by machines.
- Neo could not revive Trinity because first of all Trinity wouldn't let him to (she told him it was her time) and second of all: his 'resurrecting' powers work only in the Matrix, where he can use those powers fully. As you see, Neo cannot fly in the real world, or do super fancy kicks and punches (he had trouble fighting Bane remember?), so he cannot use his ultimate powers outside the Matrix just yet. Exploding Sentinels is just something Uber-special.