People like this need to be put away....permanently

[Cloudbringer]

Ok, if people can't stick to the topic and avoid baiting one another, we can close the thread. I really don't like doing that and it would be the first for me here in GD, so let's keep it CIVIL, please.

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: So It's justice to Torture people? Justice to allow state sponsered murder? Yes it is justice to torture and kill a torturer and murderer maybe you might look up the definition of Justice. Again I think you may be mistaken in your definition. Executing criminals is not murder, hence the word "execution" flamebait. You know Full well that I feel disgust for what he has done, I wrote that the act was a “What he did is an act of pure insanity” “All people have the right to life, even those guilty of the worst of crimes.” Since this, Is within the context one of the worst of crimes. Flamebait? hmmm I didn't think so but Im not sure what all qualifies as flamebait so I will not contest your assertion. I however, do NOT know full well that you feel anything about this man. All I have observed so far from you was concern and caring about the criminal and not a smidgeon of thought for the victim, which is why I felt the need to respond to your post in the first place. I feel (as in it is my opinion) that your opinion that all people have the right to life, is false. I firmly believe that if you become a menace to others with purely evil intent wether due to mental defect or not, you abrogate that right to life. BUT in a sense you will continue to live through the plants you fertilize once you are planted. Straw man, Flamebait, What makes you think I wouldn't care about the victim? Since I obviosly care about the criminal too, I seem to have a higher level of compassion than you. Not strawman, since I have in fact killed men before (well there were 8 of us shooting back so Im making the assumption that I was responsible for at least one of the bodies). I do know what is entailed and would not hesitate to act again if called upon to do so. Why would I have any clue that you care for the victim? You have not show it, you have only just now intimated that you MAY care about the victim. You can load up on all the compassion you want, I strill maintain that it is wasted on the likes of this "life form" that perpetrated this horrid act. I also really believe that your particular point of view in fact actually endangers those around you if you and others with the same view succeed in keeping these "things" alive after they commit attrocities. Im sorry if my view ont his is hurtful but that is my opinion.

Would you like to explain why?
Otherwise this is nothing more than blatant flamebait.
(not that'd I'd expect much else)

Yes I can explain, it is in my opinion a ridiculous position to take, and is not based on the real live world of human experience. I believe that there are people who do in fact NOT deserve to live. I have seen them, I have seen their blatant disregaurd for humanity and I have seen the misery and pain that they inflict on those around them, such as the victim in this case. Again you accuse me of flamebait and say that you would expect nothing else from me. Would that not also qualify as flamebait? Im just curious because from the context of your usage, Im not really sure what flamebait is except it must be any thing I say that you cannot refute.

I can go out and murder people If i want, You could too, So could you reading this now.
Shall we kill all these people too?

You lost me here, I have no idea what you are talking about.

That's one of the most insulting posts I've read here.

Wasn't meant to be insulting, merely a statement of fact, I do not want your type of compassion endagering my children. If your beliefs were tro be dominant around here I would be very worried for their safety.

This is a patronising and Insulting post, some of the most insulting and blatant flame bait I have ever seen anywhere, and then you have the nerve to try and wiggle out of it here.[/QUOTE]

Your opinion, maybe even others agree with you. I disagree with you. I stand by my comments and points of view. Just as most anything I say that you don't like is flamebait, anything I can say that would try to express respect for you as a person while disagreeing with your philosophy is patronising.

[Elif Godson]

Go on ahead and close it up Cloudiekin's, I give you my permission as the thread starter, not that you need it. It started out with good intentions but alas has fallen to the wayside.

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: My goodness, I have just had an epihany - followed closely by a case of deja vu' all over again. Allow me to officially welcome you to the forum, Eisenscwharz.......or should I just call you Dramnek! [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] I wondered where you had gotten off to.

Oh sure Cerek! now you tell me, after I wasted time doing a reply.....ahh well forwarned is forearmed, Thanks for the heads up dude.

I thought I felt a bit of deja vu.

Originally posted by Melusine: Straw man... for shame... yep, definitely Dramnek! But err... am I invisible or something?? quote: Crazy idea here, but maybe it would help if people stopped arguing the person and started arguing the point. Ironworks Mantras and all that, remember? It's pretty sad when people cannot even have the decency to remain respectful and calm in a topic such as this. Rather than insulting and accusing of insult, maybe we should all remember what we all have in common: that we are outraged about this tragedy and grieve for the boy's fate. Isn't that what's really important, no matter what ideas you have about what kind of punishment should be exacted?

[/QUOTE]You are never invisible [img]smile.gif[/img] I always notice when you are around ...usually you are the one educating me on my growing list of flaws and mistakes

[Cloudbringer]

Eisenschwarz, if you feel something is flaming or baiting, report it to the moderators. Throwing those terms at other members repeatedly is unproductive and opens you up to the same accusations you're tossing around.

Right now, I'm at work, sick, and definitely not in the mood to go back over four pages with a fine tooth comb to nitpick who said what to whom, so this thread needs to go BACK ON TOPIC from here on in.

I know you're all capable of good, robust discussions without intentionally baiting others to anger them, let's see a discussion of the topic and not each other, please.

Melusine's comment is to the point- argue and discuss the subject not one another.

[Attalus]

*Pictures an angry MagiK suddenly melting into a puddle of goo at the sound of The Voice of Ambrosia.* Melusine, I definitely agree with what you say. ALL of it.

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: Hmm, Ignoring you dodging, Can you justify killing someone for killing someone else? It seems awfully like “you hit me, Me hit you” to me, I mean surely We as compassionate civilised people should try to extend the hand of mercy and redemption to this person, After all, It’s what supposedly makes us civilised right? Just because I told you I wasn't interesting in discussing the death penalty doesn't mean I'm dodging you. It means I'm not interested, but to insinuate that seems like flamebait based on the recent string of examples you've pointed out. I could post my thoughts and argue them with you on capital punishment, but why would I want to? You don't seem interested in sharing ideas, you seem to be out for an argument. I've heard lots of good discussions about the right to life, and I doubt you could tell me anything I haven't heard before. Hmm, Well I’ve seen people die if that counts, Both from a Brain tumour and in a car accident. And From what I saw, I would wish death on no one. No matter the circumstances. You see, I happen to think that it’s not really our place to take life, after all, depending on what you believe, Either god gave us life and therefore It is not our place to take it or hasten it’s end. Or else you believe in The Fundamental rights of the individual and human rights, including the right to life. I've also seen people die in my personal life, and I've helped load the lifeless bodies of victims of gunshot wounds into an ambulance, getting their blood on my cloths, and listening to their families cry over their loss in the process. No death isn't pretty, but I didn't say it was, did I?. You have your opinion, and I have mine. I won't shove mine down your throat if you don't shove yours down mine. We can agree to disagree. I thought you “didn't want to turn this into a debate on the death penalty”? Feeling a bit hypocritical are we? Every heard of a rhetorical question? Do you think we should make exceptions with Human rights? If so, Can you justify this? I believe I already answered that some crimes are inconsistant with the continued life of the criminal. Another reason I'm not interested in a discuss of capital punishment with you? When you don't like my answer, you ask the same question again. That's not how ideas are exchanged. On the defensive I see, It’s flame bait and nothing more. For shame.

No need for me to be on the defensive against you Dram. You see, I'm responding to your post. Defense and response are not the same thing. Interesting that when you don't like what a person is saying you can think of nothing better to post yourself than that they're defensive, dodging, or flamebaiting.

If you think I, or anyone else, is flamebaiting, report it to the Mod Squad. There is a Report TOS button at the bottom of each post. It's their job to look into these things, not your job to make rude accusations against everyone who disagrees with you. Saying it over and over and over doesn't make it anymore true. So report it or quit saying it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

EDIT FOR PYTOS

[ 11-22-2002, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Ronn_Bman]

My last post was before I read yours Cloudy, so I'll be perfectly happy to let this lay.

Originally posted by Attalus: *Pictures an angry MagiK suddenly melting into a puddle of goo at the sound of The Voice of Ambrosia.* Melusine, I definitely agree with what you say. ALL of it.

maybe you do, but members here will contribute whatever they wish regarding the topic. if they want to vent anger against the offender, they will. if they wish to debate something else, they will

as long as they don't breach IW regs, they can pretty much post what they want [img]smile.gif[/img]

'nuff said

[ 11-21-2002, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Lord Shield ]