Assistance with killing the red dragon - possible spoilers!

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Paleface: Thanks everyone! I'm currently doing the Unseeing Eye quest and a couple other quests too strengthen my party a bit. When I do fight Firkraag, I will use Keldorn instead of Cernd or Yoshimo. He's much more powerful. I should have known better to begin with. My journal says I should fight Firkraag "when I'm ready" and retrieve the Holy Avenger. I'm not quite ready yet.

And out of the frying pan, and into the fire... ...

Technically, the Cult of the Unseeing Eye quest is considered more difficult than the Windspear Hills quest, unless you have a certain item. Have you done the Umar Hill quest or the Tradesmeet quest yet? Those are considerably easier.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Xero279: quote: Originally posted by Wolven: Have my sorceror cast whatever his name´s aura clensing (which in combination with the robes of vecna is amazing

what is that spell? ive never heard of that one i dont think...[/QUOTE]It is a ToB high level ability for Mages/Sorcerers and requires a minimum of level 18 in order to get it. Sigh... in the same vein as what Cerek the Barbarian( another boardie) once said,

"I wish people will stop assuming everybody is level 20+"

This is why I always ask people for their party makeup and levels, so as to give them a custom made tactic that they can use. No point talking about Time Stop and Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting if he/she cannot even cast Death Spell yet.

Anyway... the proper name for this high level ability is Improved Alacrity. It removes the waiting time needed inbetween spellcasting.

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Radek: No need of being sorry - you din't make anything wrong. The fact that Firkraag is a dragon is known to everybody. Asking for help with "Firkraag, the dragon" is completely natural - it is a strong opponent. Getting upset that somebody wants help with "Firkraag, the dragon" belongs to a madhouse. I don't understand one thing. Why are we bullied by the administrators in such cases like yours. Are there any limits for spoiler haters' raging in the forum or are there none? The spoiler haters are strange beasts. They prevent others from gaining and giving information - except for the moment when they themselves get stuck. At this moment, "spoilers" are allowed and required suddenly but only as long as they are stuck. It isn't fair. The spoiler haters should be banned from the forum - each of them in particular and all of them together because they restrict the liberty of others of seeking and giving help with the game. Why they read the forum if they do not want to see any piece of information on it? Their presence on the forum results in numerous completely useless posts (Oh God! I must not spoil anybody! I must speak in riddles and remove anything important from my post!). They force others to foul their posts with so called "spolier alerts". The spoiler haters sould not be here.

Radek, you are wrong. How would the fact that Firkraag is a dragon be known to those who just bought the game yesterday? Don't make assumptions for other people based on how you feel.

Posting a spoiler warning and editing your title is an act of courtesy and consideration. It lets people know what to expect in a thread, particularly if it is a plot twist. They are not preventing people from getting information, they are just asking people to word their requests in a more considerate way, because most people who post unintentional spoilers aren't doing it on purpose, they probably just didn't think of the possible consequence of their actions - like Paleface who was quite happy to edit his title when asked.

And finally, our spoiler policy is clearly outlined in our Rules and Regulations (click on the top right hand button if you haven't read this). In fact, I will cut and paste it for you:


Warn before you Spoil: A spoiler is something that reveals information about a plot twist or the location of some object/character/hidden place in a game. Spoilers are by their nature subjective - you will need to use your judgment to determine what these are. Many people in this forum talk about 'general' game issues, such as "What is the best party for whatever" or "Should I drop whoever from my group?". These types of posts usually don't require spoilers as they are general information. Other people might have specific game questions like "How do I get past so-and-so" or "Where is such-and-such". These would be considered posts requesting spoiler information. Some are obviously bigger spoilers than others. There are also posts which refer to specific plot twists in the games here, A lot of people who come here do NOT know about certain plot twists which the rest of us might take for granted. Unmarked spoilers about these detract from these people's gaming experience. The majority of people don't like finding out about a plot twist before they were meant to. (Like someone telling you the ending of a movie before you see it) As a courtesy to other board members who may not have gotten as far in the game as you have, please abide by the following when requesting or revealing spoiler information: Do NOT reveal the spoiler in your title. Put a SPOILER tag in the title so people know you will be revealing spoiler information. Put spoiler spaces just before the part where you are revealing the information.


You don't have to like this policy, but I expect you to abide by it.

[Unliving]

Hi [img]smile.gif[/img] if you say you wont fight firkragg. then cast magic resistance
on him. this lower his 90% magic res to about 20% (use your lowest lewel to cast magic resistance.) he wont get hostile (magic res is a frendly spell) after that kill him.
(his is still hard to kill but it helps)!

[ 07-11-2002, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Unliving ]

[philip]

Originally posted by Unliving: Hi [img]smile.gif[/img] if you say you wont fight firkragg. then cast magic resistance on him. this lower his 90% magic res to about 20% (use your lowest lewel to cast magic resistance.) he wont get hostile (magic res is a frendly spell) after that kill him. (his is still hard to kill but it helps)!

You don't have to lower its magic resistance. I forgot to memorise it so I just tried to kill it. I summoned 4 animate dead (Anomen= lvl 15/16 (I did all chapter 2 quests I could find and did the Windspear hills last) so he summons that special beast) 2 in front and one on each side of Firkraag. Mazzy had Dragonslayer (long sword) Minsc Dragonbane +3 (+6 to dragons halberd) Anomen Flail of the Ages (didn't use it though)

First I casted Holy Smite (Anomen. Despite of his 90 % magic resistance it did 20+ damage)followed by 2 insect plagues(Jaheira). Hasted my skeleton warriors and charged. After a while it died.

[Radek]

I am very pleased that I got a civilised answer to my provocative post. I would like to emphasize that I know that I am not the administrator of the forum, that other have set the rules for posting and that I should follow them. What drove me crazy was the nature of the cause.

As it is stated in the Rules, "Spoilers are by their nature subjective - you will need to use your judgment to determine what these are". In fact, EVERY piece of information posted on the forum is a "spoiler" because EVERY piece of information posted on the forum can "detract from gaming experience". It is not right that "general game issues" as cited in the Rules aren't "spoilers". If I were a spoiler hater fundamentalist then I could post complaints that somebody dared to start a thread named "Should I drop Nalia from my group?" - because that somebody spoiled me beyond any imagination and told me that I can add Nalia to my party, which I wanted to find myself. In the other words, each thread should be marked as "possible spoilers". Each - perhaps, except those that discuss wheather or girls. And each post in the thread should be full of "spoiler alerts" and dotted lines. Each post - except those that do not bring any piece of information. How do we have to name our threads so as we do not upset spoiler haters?
Here is the problem. We are left at mercy and unmercy of a group of guys, which authorized themselves to judge what is a "spoiler" and what is not a "spoiler". The judgment depends only on the level of fundamentalism of a particular spoiler hater. If we do not want to upset spoiler haters then we should only parrot manuals. Such forum would be no use.
The example with telling the end of "the ending of a movie before you see it" does not pass. If you participate on a discussion about that movie then you gain information about it no matter whether you want the info or not. You cannot want other participants to shut up only because you haven't seen the movie so far or because there are others that haven't seen it. The only possibility of NOT being "spoiled" this way is NOT participating on such discussion. It is your liberty not to participate on the discussion. And it is the liberty of others to discuss the movie.

I would like to see some limits of raging of spoiler haters on the forum. Everybody who opens any thread about "dragons" (not only about Firkraag) or about Firkraag will see that Firkraag is a dragon. It is almost impossible not being "spoiled" by "Firkraag, the dragon" once we click any line in the forum contents that contains words "dragon" or "Firkraag". Therefore, the complaint about "Firkraag, the dragon" exceeded any reasonable limits.

[Unliving]

Originally posted by Philip: You don't have to lower its magic resistance. I forgot to memorise it so I just tried to kill it. I summoned 4 animate dead (Anomen= lvl 15/16 (I did all chapter 2 quests I could find and did the Windspear hills last) so he summons that special beast) 2 in front and one on each side of Firkraag. Mazzy had Dragonslayer (long sword) Minsc Dragonbane +3 (+6 to dragons halberd) Anomen Flail of the Ages (didn't use it though) First I casted Holy Smite (Anomen. Despite of his 90 % magic resistance it did 20+ damage)followed by 2 insect plagues(Jaheira). Hasted my skeleton warriors and charged. After a while it died.

ok nice [img]smile.gif[/img] I took him early in act 2. (I just had a hard time leaving without killing him ) I only had DragonSlayer. and with his res. lower I used bout 5-6 hours killing him, !(2 times Near Death then he got me argh,!) perhaps next time I play a new char. I wait a little longer with him. ! lol

[ 07-11-2002, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Unliving ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

To Radek:
----
Just wanted to point out that your analogy of Nalia as a joinable NPC is flawed, as it is stated in the SoA manual. I get your drift though, but stating that Firkragg is a Dragon is a genuine spoiler, as the player has absolutely no idea that Firkragg is a Dragon until the player actually meets him face to face.

Also, most threads regarding Firkragg are tagged with the spoiler tag. Those that are not, does not justify that it is okay to do so in the future. As I have said to previous boardies who do not see the point of having spoiler tags, instead of pointing out such examples, why not rectify it by asking the thread creator nicely to modify his thread title?

The movie analogy was not a metaphor for the thread, but for the forum, although I admit there are limitations as to how a movie and a forum can be compared. To put it in layman terms, a person enters this forum wanting answers, but not unwanted spoilers. Ironworks Forums strives for this aim, if I am not mistaken.

[Paleface]

And out of the frying pan, and into the fire... ... Technically, the Cult of the Unseeing Eye quest is considered more difficult than the Windspear Hills quest, unless you have a certain item. Have you done the Umar Hill quest or the Tradesmeet quest yet? Those are considerably easier.[/QB]

Yes, I've already completed both of those quests.

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Radek: I am very pleased that I got a civilised answer to my provocative post. I would like to emphasize that I know that I am not the administrator of the forum, that other have set the rules for posting and that I should follow them. What drove me crazy was the nature of the cause. As it is stated in the Rules, "Spoilers are by their nature subjective - you will need to use your judgment to determine what these are". In fact, EVERY piece of information posted on the forum is a "spoiler" because EVERY piece of information posted on the forum can "detract from gaming experience". It is not right that "general game issues" as cited in the Rules aren't "spoilers". If I were a spoiler hater fundamentalist then I could post complaints that somebody dared to start a thread named "Should I drop Nalia from my group?" - because that somebody spoiled me beyond any imagination and told me that I can add Nalia to my party, which I wanted to find myself. In the other words, each thread should be marked as "possible spoilers". Each - perhaps, except those that discuss wheather or girls. And each post in the thread should be full of "spoiler alerts" and dotted lines. Each post - except those that do not bring any piece of information. How do we have to name our threads so as we do not upset spoiler haters? Here is the problem. We are left at mercy and unmercy of a group of guys, which authorized themselves to judge what is a "spoiler" and what is not a "spoiler". The judgment depends only on the level of fundamentalism of a particular spoiler hater. If we do not want to upset spoiler haters then we should only parrot manuals. Such forum would be no use. The example with telling the end of "the ending of a movie before you see it" does not pass. If you participate on a discussion about that movie then you gain information about it no matter whether you want the info or not. You cannot want other participants to shut up only because you haven't seen the movie so far or because there are others that haven't seen it. The only possibility of NOT being "spoiled" this way is NOT participating on such discussion. It is your liberty not to participate on the discussion. And it is the liberty of others to discuss the movie. I would like to see some limits of raging of spoiler haters on the forum. Everybody who opens any thread about "dragons" (not only about Firkraag) or about Firkraag will see that Firkraag is a dragon. It is almost impossible not being "spoiled" by "Firkraag, the dragon" once we click any line in the forum contents that contains words "dragon" or "Firkraag". Therefore, the complaint about "Firkraag, the dragon" exceeded any reasonable limits.

A civilized answer to a provocative, inflammatory post - I'm glad you recognized that, and I hope you take some lesson from that when you raise any concerns you may have about our forum policies in the future. Courtesy will always get you a courteous response - even if the response is not what you want.

I would imagine that common sense and good judgment should be used when determining whether something is a spoiler, and if anyone doubts their judgment then it's best to go on the safe side. This is such a small and simple thing to do - it's seven letters you add to your title, and I would hope that people do it for genuine consideration for others, rather than because it's the rules. [img]smile.gif[/img]