Embedded reporter on patrol in Iraq

[Skunk]

Originally posted by sultan: c'mon, skunk, you'd have to be uninformed and naive as hell to think that hearts and minds is anything more than empty rhetoric. it's sposed to make the american people feel good, or at least ease their consciences, about what is being done in their name. but a real program of cultural closeness? laughable.

Well, first of all (contrary to the popular comparisons) this is not vietnam or WWII occupied europe. 'Resistance' groups do not have the natural cover of jungles, forests and mountains to hide in - as a result, they will hide in the cities and towns. They are urban fighters who rely on the population at large to shelter, feed and cover for them. At the very least, they expect the local population to keep quiet about their movements.

So from a purely pragmatic military point of view, winning "hearts and minds" on the ground now is the equivilent of using Agent Orange in Vietnam - it helps to remove the ability of the opposing force to gain cover.

Secondly, there are the long-term issues to consider. No-one in the Bush administration wants to keep Iraq occupied forever. Nor do they want to maintain a standing army of 100,000+ troops on the ground for the next 20 years. I think I'm safe in assuming this to be the general feeling in the US at large too. Yet, before the troops can be pulled out, there *has* to be stability and security - this can't come until the attacks subside and anti-american feelings generated by these sorts of acts will slow this pacification process.

Thirdly, and most importantly, one has to look to the attitudes of the future democratically elected Iraqi government. The nightmare scenario would be the formation of a government which is (at best) suspicious of the US and unwilling to work with it in a variety of sectors - or at worst, one which is openly belligerent towards the US in the way that Iran is today. One might argue that the US/UK have irredeemably lost half of the current Iraqi population's goodwill (as a result of the sanctions, two wars and the failures of the occupation). It might be wise then, to be thinking about winning over tommorow's generation - which the child in that photo represents.

"Hearts and minds" then is more than a simple placebo for a skeptical home audience - it is a vital part of the US's long term strategic interests in Iraq and the wider middle-eastern world.

sorry, guys, i wasnt clear.

i was not saying that "hearts and minds" is a bad idea. it would be good for the iraqi people, it would be good for the US administration, and it would be good long term.

what i am saying is that, by their actions (eg appointing the "holy war" general), not only are they failing at it, but one must question whether they ever intended to do it in the first place.

it is with that in mind that i say they never had an serious intention of executing it, but rather used it only to placate the mob. or, more concisely, that it was empty rhetoric.

[Skunk]

I can't believe that US troops are up to their old tricks once more (and got themselves caught on film to boot!). Is there really no learning curve involved in all of this??

Maybe Michael Jackson can join the army and do both the promotional video!

US continues to humiliate Iraqis
By Lawrence Smallman
Pictures of US soldiers searching young girls on their way to class have provoked renewed international outrage.

Exclusive photos show US-led occupation forces frisking schoolgirls – a move condemned by the girls’ parents and international human rights organisations alike.

One father, Abu Muhammad, told Aljazeera.net on Sunday that if he ever hears his daughter has been touched by American soldiers again, he would “not be responsible for the consequences”.

“This humiliation has got to end now. I refuse to live like this. I’d rather die and I’ll take a few soldiers with me – and that’s a promise, not a threat.”

US reaction
CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, is already conducting an investigation and seeking legal advice after previous Aljazeera.net pictures showed troops tying up little girls in their own home.

Washington CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said such treatment of young children can only increase resentment of American troops in Iraq, a development that will “ultimately demoralise troops further”.

But senior US officers continue to justify their actions, stressing children could be carrying explosives.

No comment
Central Military Command in Florida says the security of US soldiers comes before any “hearts and minds operation or the rights of Iraqi children”.

Central Command refused to comment on the latest series of pictures, but two weeks ago Major David Farlow warned Aljazeera.net not to publish similar photos on this site.

"It would be irresponsible. I can't second guess what has happened here without knowing all the facts but US forces operating in Iraq have to use the appropriate level of restraint to the mission," he said at the time.

Covering up
In another heavily-criticised development, US-led occupation forces now regularly put bags over the heads of Iraqi detainees.

The blanket policy has become a regular occurrence at the time of arrest with no regard for whether the people detained are guilty of any crime or not.

US human rights advocates and lawyers believe Washington is quietly embracing this psychological torture as an acceptable means in its desperate search for information that may crush Iraq’s resistance movement.

The US director of Physicians for Human Rights, Holly Burkhalter, condemns the policy as unacceptable.

But she said her government does not “have a policy on torture" and is pressing the Pentagon for assurances that detainees will not continue to be treated in such a manner.

But there is no specific policy that defines the practice as torture.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Skunk: Washington CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said such treatment of young children can only increase resentment of American troops in Iraq, a development that will “ultimately demoralise troops further”. But senior US officers continue to justify their actions, stressing children could be carrying explosives. No comment Central Military Command in Florida says the security of US soldiers comes before any “hearts and minds operation or the rights of Iraqi children”.

No you stupid thick prat - searching these girls doesn't improve the security of your soldiers - it makes it more likely that they will be blown to smithereens by a suicide bomber, or have their throats cut like the two at the weeekend!

Stop thinking like Americans - start thinking like Iraqis! You will be safer!

[antryg]

No you stupid thick prat - searching these girls doesn't improve the security of your soldiers - it makes it more likely that they will be blown to smithereens by a suicide bomber, or have their throats cut like the two at the weeekend! Stop thinking like Americans - start thinking like Iraqis! You will be safer! [/QB]

Absolutely right Donut! The US should use poison gas attacks on villages where resistance is high. The customary and traditional forms of torture and rape should be reinstated as well. Of course if this doesn't bring quick results the US will have to invade itself as an evil dictatorship. At least that is one way to get the troops out of Iraq.

[Donut]

Originally posted by antryg: quote: No you stupid thick prat - searching these girls doesn't improve the security of your soldiers - it makes it more likely that they will be blown to smithereens by a suicide bomber, or have their throats cut like the two at the weeekend! Stop thinking like Americans - start thinking like Iraqis! You will be safer!

Absolutely right Donut! The US should use poison gas attacks on villages where resistance is high. The customary and traditional forms of torture and rape should be reinstated as well. Of course if this doesn't bring quick results the US will have to invade itself as an evil dictatorship. At least that is one way to get the troops out of Iraq. [/QB][/QUOTE]Possibly not what I had in mind. If I had said start thinking like Saddam Hussein you might have had a point. Remember the Iraqis have been freed from tyranny now.