HLA's, some ideas

[Devv]

The point is though, what can a sorcerer do if he needs a trap disarmed? What can he do if he finds himself in a "null magic" room like in WK. What can he do if he has no spells left and is jumped by bandits?

In most cases the sorcerer is the argueably strongest character in the game, of course cleric/mages and kensai/mages could be voted the same. However, a thief shouldn't be able to even touch a level 9 scroll, never mind set up traps with level 9 effects. The damage done by those spike traps is insane too. The assasination was smartly limited to 1 use a day, but the same is needed for things like GWW. UAI is just rude too!

[Xen]

Originally posted by Devv: The point is though, what can a sorcerer do if he needs a trap disarmed? What can he do if he finds himself in a "null magic" room like in WK. What can he do if he has no spells left and is jumped by bandits? In most cases the sorcerer is the argueably strongest character in the game, of course cleric/mages and kensai/mages could be voted the same. However, a thief shouldn't be able to even touch a level 9 scroll, never mind set up traps with level 9 effects. The damage done by those spike traps is insane too. The assasination was smartly limited to 1 use a day, but the same is needed for things like GWW. UAI is just rude too!

Null Magic room? There are certain Boots in SoA with Tactics Mod... that make a Sorcerer "cheesy". Even if he/she finds hikmself in a "Dead Magic" zone he can still cast spells. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 09-12-2003, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Xen ]

[Tancred]

[quote]Originally posted by Elramir:

AFAIK that's not right. Both, his father Arathorn and his mother Gilraen, were Northern Dúnedain. That means that Aragorn has no elven blood.

The Dunedain ancestry, and that of Numenor before it, was descended from the line of Elros, Elrond's brother (Elrond is in fact Aragorn's great-uncle, going back 50 generations or so). Elrond and Elros were of the Half-elven, the scions of the union between Beren, a man, and Luthien, an elven maid. The Half-Elven were given a choice by the Valar (gods) - become Elves or become Men. Elros chose mankind; Elrond became an Elf (hence his epithet among elves - 'Elrond the Wise' [img]smile.gif[/img] ). Therefore it's correct to say Aragorn has no Elven blood.

However, Luthien herself was the grand-daughter of the Valar, Yavanna (if I remember arightly)... so you might well say that Aragorn, while not being possessed of Elvish heritage, has a certain spark of the divine about him.

But I digress.

Aragorn may have had extroadinary powers of healing, but that was partly based on the lore of the Dunedain; the skill in the correct preparation of certain herbs (athelas, for example). I see no reason to assume that, in the Forgotten Realms - where incredible powers and amazing skills are a lot more common than in Middle-Earth - a Ranger with sufficient experience could not do something similar.

[Tancred]

The power of High Level abilities - and spells too - is based on one simple factor: how often do you rest? It's possible to use every ability you've got in every battle you fight if you rest after every single clash.

Here's a thought, then - make all the HLAs One Use Only. Imagine them as moments of divine inspiration, frantic last-minute bursts of frenzy, heroic acts of sheer willpower, blasts of extreme and risky magic, fiendish but difficult-to-construct trap devices, etc, etc... If you want to use one HLA more than once, you'll have to select it again. For the more powerful HLAs, you'd have to achieve a higher level.

[ 09-12-2003, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Tancred ]

[Lord]

Originally posted by Tancred: The power of High Level abilities - and spells too - is based on one simple factor: how often do you rest? It's possible to use every ability you've got in every battle you fight if you rest after every single clash. Here's a thought, then - make all the HLAs One Use Only. Imagine them as moments of divine inspiration, frantic last-minute bursts of frenzy, heroic acts of sheer willpower, blasts of extreme and risky magic, fiendish but difficult-to-construct trap devices, etc, etc... If you want to use one HLA more than once, you'll have to select it again. For the more powerful HLAs, you'd have to achieve a higher level.

i like all of that except having to achieve a higher lvl for the more powerful HLAs. The more powerful HLAs already require you to select the weaker HLA that's 'grouped' with it (such as you need power attack and critical strike to use smite. was it called critical strike? cant remember, i never used the HLAs much to remember).

[Devv]

I like the idea of having some HLA's available to higher levels only [img]smile.gif[/img] I still say that some need to be removed too tho.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Tancred, and edited for brevity: The Dunedain ancestry, and that of Numenor before it, was descended from the line of Elros, Elrond's brother. Elrond and Elros were of the Half-elven. Elros chose mankind; Elrond became an Elf. Therefore it's correct to say Aragorn has no Elven blood. However, Luthien herself was the grand-daughter of the Valar, Yavanna (if I remember arightly)... so you might well say that Aragorn, while not being possessed of Elvish heritage, has a certain spark of the divine about him.

While it's quite true that Elros chose the path of Men for himself and his descendants, I wouldn't say that directly equates to having "no Elven blood" in his veins. Both Elrond and Elros chose nothing more than physical characteristics and the place in which they would rest in the Halls of Mandos; the choice did not sunder brother from brother, or parents from children. Tolkien even gives us examples of true Half-Elves (Earendil and Elwing), proving that the blood of both races can flow in the same body.

Luthien Tinuviel did indeed have divine blood, but it was not from Yavanna of the Valar, but rather from Melian of the Maiar, who was her mother. And don't forget that the Numenoreans have Half-Elven blood on the other side of their ancestry as well, from Idril Celebrindal and Tuor.

[Devv]

I know what you are saying Six, but when the Numenoriands became Numenorians I kinda feel that they became something different to both elves and normal men. Supposedly the herald of Manwe comes to these men after their battles with Morgoth, when allied to the Elves and Vallah and he teaches them many things about the world. This extends their life and makes them harder in spirit and body than normal men, but they still remain mortal.

I know that Elros would have been half elven if you look at his roots, but I think the Numenorians was kind of a new race created after Morgoth was beaten. Half elves were very rare and not allowed to remain half elves it seems, that's why Elros and Elrond had to choose between mortal and immortal life - becoming more like a human or more like an elf. That's my take on it all anyway [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Tancred]

Well, naturally Earendil and his wife were Half-Elven. Earendil was the one who came to Valinor and made the Valar decide to make the Half-Elves choose which race to belong to in the first place! [img]smile.gif[/img]

As for 'blood'... I think I've ended up using the wrong terms. Blood's blood, there's nothing special about it. It would be more correct, perhaps, to say that Aragorn may have a trace of Elvish blood in his body, but that does not make him special. Elros surrendered everything that made him an Elf when he made his choice to become mortal. He was barred from Valinor and lost his total connection to the physical world, but in return was able to sleep and dream, and when he died he was able to go... wherever Men go. (In Middle-Earth, choosing between Elf and Man is a tough one, really it is.) It's the divine ancestry of the Numenoreans and their descendants that sets them apart, not their Elvish roots. Sorry about the confusion there.

And yep, you're right! Melian was Luthien's mother. [img]smile.gif[/img] My Silmarillion is rusty.

[Devv]

Originally posted by Tancred: (In Middle-Earth, choosing between Elf and Man is a tough one, really it is.)

So what would you choose? [img]smile.gif[/img] I think I would need to think hard about it, being mortal is a bit of a gamble and would be the brave choice I guess, but being elf is very appealing!