"Terrorist profile" may be used to justify FBI investigations

[Black Swan Gauntlet]

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/0...-terror-probes

Yeesh. The racial bit is bad enough, but what concerns me is the "without evidence of wrongdoing" part. The DOJ has been a bit creative in their interpretation of Amendments 4-6 over the past eight years...I know that if my job were to protect the Constitution, I'd be careful not to take action that clearly contradicted it. Here's hoping the measure gets thrown out.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Well... yeah, but we have parades! And fireworks! You know! I'm proud to be an American, 'cause at least I know I'm free. Patriotism!

[Black Swan Gauntlet]

Not sure why that matters. At any rate, patriotism is present even in the most repressive of regimes...and on that note, happy Independence Day, everybody.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

I was being ironic... Don't know if you've been away or lurking since 2005 (though, for the record, I have appreciated your posts in the past few weeks), but I have a fairly solid record of being in favor of both civil rights and sarcasm.

That post was also partly fueled by my anger towards the 4th of July celebrations I've seen. People are willing to plug their ears and cheer about how we're completely free, when our liberties and ideals are being blatantly eroded. They're not thinking critically anymore, and it all seems rather shallow to me.

[Kyrvias]

But that's what america has become, hasn't it? A land of blatant denial and foolhardy optimism.

Optimism to change what is wrong without actually doing anything.

[Black Swan Gauntlet]

Originally Posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar I was being ironic... Don't know if you've been away or lurking since 2005 (though, for the record, I have appreciated your posts in the past few weeks), but I have a fairly solid record of being in favor of both civil rights and sarcasm. That post was also partly fueled by my anger towards the 4th of July celebrations I've seen. People are willing to plug their ears and cheer about how we're completely free, when our liberties and ideals are being blatantly eroded. They're not thinking critically anymore, and it all seems rather shallow to me.

Ah, I see. For the record, I didn't know about this forum until mid-June this summer, so my knowledge of its participants is limited.

As for critical thinking/denial/etc...well, there's *always* been a large bloc in the US which doesn't follow politics - or holds such a cynical view of the field that they just don't care who's in power. It's odd that people can reconcile unconditional love of their country with unconditional antipathy and apathy toward its government, but it's unlikely that anyone can readily dispel attitudes so entrenched.

Guess you just have to keep taking action whatever way you can. No point in despairing, right?

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by Black Swan Gauntlet http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/0...-terror-probes Yeesh. The racial bit is bad enough, but what concerns me is the "without evidence of wrongdoing" part. The DOJ has been a bit creative in their interpretation of Amendments 4-6 over the past eight years...I know that if my job were to protect the Constitution, I'd be careful not to take action that clearly contradicted it. Here's hoping the measure gets thrown out.

When government personnel take the oath and are entrusted with the power, their thought process then becomes slightly skewed from that of normal ethical structures. Nobody wants to be the one that the event happened while it was their watch. In so much as, the very nature of the countries pillared foundation is no longer considered to be the sacred print from which the very oath of office was extracted. Thereby, nothing is ever really fixed for the cause may not be the current administrations focal point, but rather its facade of justice.

On the other hand; if it saves a life, protects citizens from a 'real' and not speculated threat, then at times the necessity of "evidence" should come second to the individuals right. That is where we as a nation have gone astray from the remaining free world. A German Polizei (Policeman) has more power than a US small court traffic judge. He can spot you, ticket you and fine you on the spot, "no contest". Contest it? Going to the stockade where you will remain until released, by bail (unlikely) or after court appearance (3-5 days). Try that here! The ACLU will scream like........................

[Black Swan Gauntlet]

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin ...if it saves a life, protects citizens from a 'real' and not speculated threat, then at times the necessity of "evidence" should come second to the individuals right.

Without evidence to back it up, there can be no "real threat!" That's the problem; the FBI is speculating that certain people might perhaps maybe possibly pose a threat by virtue of their ethnicity, religion, travel history, etc. The precedent it sets is atrocious, and it's very possible that somewhere on their little list of "risk factors" is vocal opposition to government policy.

(On a side note, many ethnic Muslims could easily fit three of the criteria, as pilgrimage to Mecca remains important to Islam.)

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin That is where we as a nation have gone astray from the remaining free world. A German Polizei (Policeman) has more power than a US small court traffic judge. He can spot you, ticket you and fine you on the spot, "no contest". Contest it? Going to the stockade where you will remain until released, by bail (unlikely) or after court appearance (3-5 days).

Then Germany is in the wrong, not America.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by Black Swan Gauntlet Then Germany is in the wrong, not America.

And that is why we have a high rate of DUIs, people driving without a license, insurance, etc..Not to mention we did away with mandatory vehicle inspections because it interfered with our freedoms. Many European countries share the same rules as does Germany, all of which are in the free world. It just however happens that we have taken it a step further, and have created organizations that would harbor acts of unlawfulness than to actually allow policing of the guilty, let alone holding one at guilt.

[Black Swan Gauntlet]

As always, Felix, you're dodging the real point. Read my prior post again, but pay more attention to the first half - the relevant part.