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View Poll Results: Same sex marriages. Your opinion? | |||
I think same sex marriages are good. |
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19 | 67.86% |
I am against same sex marriages. |
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9 | 32.14% |
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1 |
Fzoul Chembryl
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Join Date: August 30, 2001
Location: somewhere
Age: 55
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This topic was brought up in the headlines again by the Vatican taking an active stance against it. I don't agree with everything the Vatican says, but with this I do agree. I do not personally think that same sex marriages should be allowed.
Marriage is primarily to promote a cohesive family unit. Husband, wife and children in a family. To be in a homosexual relashonship, you must know that propigation is impossible. This makes marriage a somewhat moot point. I don't think homosexuals should be persecuted. They should be able to have the same relashonship as any two consenting adults can. That does not mean they should be able to twist the rest of society and it's customs to meet their needs. They chose their path when they decided to have homosexual relationships. Don't hand me any of that "You're born that way" bull, they made a choice at a point in their life that led to where they are now. Everyone else has to live with the consequences of their choices. Why not them? There's a price to pay for everything, particularly things that go against common social mores. That's life. Anyway, that's my opinion. I know it's a bit conservative and likely to catch some flak. What's everyone's opinion? Agree or disagree?
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#2 |
Anubis
![]() Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Up in the Freedomland Alps
Age: 61
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I disagree ! [img]smile.gif[/img]
First, the propagation thing. So then, should an heteroxual and unfertile couple be allowed to marry ? ![]() Second, the "price to pay". Why should that "price" be insecurity for their loved one ? Why should they have to pay much higher taxes to put their properties in common during their life, or for taking actions like life-insurance or will to the benefit of the one who shares their life ? [img]smile.gif[/img] That debate occured in France a few years ago, and the government created a new institution called "PACS" that is not a marriage but gives a couple of people living together the same rights of sharing as a married couple. Note that the PACS applies to any pair of people in this situation, also for example to two celibate sisters sharing a home.
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#3 |
Zartan
![]() Join Date: July 18, 2001
Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth
Age: 51
Posts: 5,373
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I think certain religions want to push their idea of a family group on everybody else. Go figure.
Homosexuals can adopt children or use surrogates and deserve the same rights of civil union as everybody else. I challenge you to prove homosexuals chose that way of life, you can't. It is an opinion that has no merit as fact.
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#4 |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
![]() Join Date: October 29, 2001
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Sir Kenyth - I suppose I'll line up and take some flak with you.
I voted against homosexual marriages for many of the same reasons you listed in your post. I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle from a religious standpoint. I also agree that it is a choice rather than a genetic pre-disposition (although I realize the choice may have been made on a subconscious level, thus leading the person to truly believe they were born that way). I also disagree with homosexual marriages for more pragmatic reasons. As a father, I have come to realize that women and men simply handle situations differently. My wife will often come up with a solution to a problem or misdeed by one of our kids that I simply never would have thought of trying. The same goes for me. I've handled situations in a manner she would never have thought to try. I firmly believe that children need both a male and female perspective in their rearing in order to have a better, more "rounded" personality. I love my father dearly, but my mother was my "best friend" and I discussed things with her that I wouldn't think of discussing with dad. That relationship continues to this day. But my dad gave me perspectives on certain issues that mom couldn't, and I go to him for a different type of advice. Basically, I feel that the husband and wife "balance each other out" and this allows the child to draw thier own conclusions and opinions based on an amalgam of our collective perspectives. That is something that just doesn't exist (at least not as completely) in a homosexual relationship, because there may be social differences in the partners' viewpoints, but there is no gender difference.
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#5 | |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
![]() Join Date: October 29, 2001
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Quote:
BTW, I know a homosexual couple (two men) that have used a surrogate to father one child and they are "expecting" another one fairly soon. While I disagree with their lifestyle (be it chosen or genetic), I readily admit that neither child will lack for love or material things. One of the couple has a very lucrative job, which allowed them to afford the cost of the surrogate parent to begin with (about $30,000 PLUS all doctor visits and medical expenses incurred during the pregnancy and delivery). I also admit that, while the children won't have the "well rounded" perspective I described in my first post..they WILL have a more unique perspective that others don't.
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#6 |
40th Level Warrior
![]() Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,916
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Let's keep in mind there are two events, two "marriages," in a marriage: religious ceremony and legal ceremony.
Religious: if your church will marry same-sex couples, good for it, if not, so be it. See the religious tolerance thread. Legal: Call it marriage, a PAC, a civil union (VT and France seem to have VERY similar systems, btw), covorting concubines, or "Bob" for all I care, but give nontraditional couples the same legal rights of inheritance, medical benefits, tax benefits, next-of-kin status, etc as traditional couples. I remember hearing testimony in legislative committees on these issues. The lesbian who died alone because hospital personnel refused to let her partner into the ward to be with her. The lesbian who lost her child (of 10 years) when her partner who had adopted the child (absent a civil union, 2 people cannot cojointly adopt) died and the long-estranged parents came and "saved" the child from such an abomination as growing up with a loving lesbian mother. However much you hate gays, you are one cold SOB if you can't hear these stories and not think something needs to be done. Genetics of homosexuality? Up in the air. Scientists believe they have found the gay gene. All species of mammals exhibit homosexual tendancies. Whether it's nature, nurture, or (most likely) a mix, you cannot look at a male dog trying to mount another male dog and call it simply choice. Choice may be part of the factor, but it isn't all of it. In a world of increased divorce and increasing freedom to make our homes as we see fit, denying that these relationships are in fact "families" ultimately has a bad effect on the kids -- exactly the opposite of the assertion that recognizing gay relationships erode family values, I see such recognition as supporting family values. However you partner with others and make your home, please be responsible parents, and you deserve the social benefits of chosing to partner with someone and raise kids. Please, gay folks, adopt all you want -- lord knows there are plenty of children needing homes. Being raised by two fathers is better than being raised by none. More and more, families today don't look like Ward and June Cleaver's -- not recognizing that is hurting society. You can close your eyes, hold your ears, and scream "Nanananana" all you want, but when you stop, gays will still be here, as will stepparents, as will single parents, and as will children needing loving homes. |
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#7 |
Gold Dragon
![]() Join Date: June 18, 2002
Location: Wolfville, NS / Calgary, AB
Age: 38
Posts: 2,563
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I can honestly say I don't really care either way. Having homosexual marriages legalised (like they recently are here,) really doesn't affect me (I am straight.) It doesn't make my parent's marriage less meaningful, or less fulfilling. I don't believe religions should be forced to perform/accept them, but law here states they don't have to. If it makes them happy, so be it. I don't see how allowing it really modifies anything in my life. I think they're a bit anal-retentive to care so much about the word "marriage" specifically, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.
And Cerek, I have to disagree with some of your points about gay parenting. I think that a child will have a much more rounded, complete upbringing with two gay, loving partners, than a single parent, or in the care of the foster home system.
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#8 | |
Zartan
![]() Join Date: July 18, 2001
Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth
Age: 51
Posts: 5,373
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Quote:
BTW, I know a homosexual couple (two men) that have used a surrogate to father one child and they are "expecting" another one fairly soon. While I disagree with their lifestyle (be it chosen or genetic), I readily admit that neither child will lack for love or material things. One of the couple has a very lucrative job, which allowed them to afford the cost of the surrogate parent to begin with (about $30,000 PLUS all doctor visits and medical expenses incurred during the pregnancy and delivery). I also admit that, while the children won't have the "well rounded" perspective I described in my first post..they WILL have a more unique perspective that others don't. [/QUOTE]I never said it was genetic, though the homosexual behavior of some animals in the wild reveal alot to this discussion perhaps. I have yet to meet a homosexual who would claim they "chose" to be that way, except for the so-called " reformed" people certian right-wing groups haul out in front of the cameras when ever this issue takes center stage in the media. Of course anyone can repress and deny what they are.
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#9 |
Manshoon
![]() Join Date: June 18, 2003
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Once again religion gets in the way again Cerek. And I have to side with Moiraine on the fertility thing. But not just fertility, what about those hetero couples that know b4 marrige that there wont be any kids in their future due to a choice of their own? Shouldn't that make them inelligable for a wedding as well? Marrige was never designed to "promote" anything. One more question for Sir Kenyth, are you gay? How would you know your not "born that way" You shouldnt try and make the rules when your not playing the game. Maybe Im looking at this wrong but to me a marrige has absolutely ZERO to do with a persons religion or political views. I believe that marrage is a pact between 2 ppl ( hetero, gay, lesbian)in which they promise to share their lives together, for better or worse, richer or poorer, kids or no kids. Its a union between 2 ppl that want to promise themselves to each other and try and make a go of survival at life together.
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#10 |
40th Level Warrior
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It's not the way it's supposed to be, but who am i to judge two people who love eachother ? If two guys wanna marry eachother, or two women, by all means go right ahead.
And the Vatican.... well, who cares about what they say or think ? [ 07-31-2003, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: johnny ]
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