Advice please on Hybrid Party

[Krull]

Once again I've got bored with my present party so thought I would go out the whole hog and have a complete hybrid party as follows:-

Human Lord (dual maces)
Human Valkyrie (polearm of course)
Felpurr Samurai (swords and the critical hits)
Faerie Ninja (CoC to see what the fuss is about and the critical hits)
Human Monk (Critical hits, Martial Arts or Staff?) advice here please?
Mook Ranger (just for THE sword as well as the ranged criticals)

I realise that this will be a slow building party with no magic until level 5 but was wondering about giving them one level of the appropriate magic school to get some extra magic points. I would stagger this so it happens before level 5 is reached (for example, Samurai to Mage and Lord to Priest at L2, Ninja and Ranger to Alchemist at L3 etc).

Is this feasible? Also, if I then switch back to, for example the Samurai, will my Wizardry and magic realms go up if I cast the spell Frost enough times or do they only go up once you reach level 5 (or level six in this example)?

I should add that I have used Bards and Gadgeteers in other parties but felt like a change. I know I can pick up RFS-81 at the swamp but wanted to cover all four magic schools.

I also like the fact that I would eventually have six portal casters and 3 casters for Summon Elemental.

Also, as I have four front line fighters does it matter who I put on the flanks?

What does everybody think? Any comments/constructive criticisms?

Thanks in adavnce for any replies.

[True_Moose]

Definitely feasible but tough...my own party's quite similar.
You could ignore the front row entirely, putting valkyrie and ranger in the very back, and use the flanks and center as one big wall, it's what I do
Develop the monk towards martial arts. Martial arts = more & faster hits = more chances to critical kill which is good. I like that you have 4 ppl who can critical, plus the lord (presumably with at least 1 DE) should be paralyzing.
Obviously weaker in magic, but quite powerful combat-wise.

[Krull]

True_Moose, thanks for the reply. I'm interested in what your party actually was just to compare the two. If it's better than mine I might just pinch it off you and run with it instead!

I was thinking that, for a change, I wouldn't recruit any NPCs as the party is OK combat wise and that it takes time before you get an offensive spellcaster (the T'Rang Samurai?). I know Vi can cast offensive spells but not until later.

Also, I assume that you are pretty much into the game right now. What problems have you encountered, apart from the weak spellcasting, of course? Have you any tips as to how to proceed with this party?

As far as my party goes, I've just reached the Upper Monestary. The only real problem I had was that I forgot to take into account what stats were needed before I could give them a level in their magic school.

Thanks.

[MaskedFrog]

Your all Hybrid party sounds interesting. I would not bother taking a level in the appopriate caster class as it just delays getting to a level where they can cast themselves.

You never get any practice from skills that are not apart of your class. Therefore if you are not 5th level in the Hybrid class then you will not get any practice with magic skills.

I also recommend ignoring the front line as True_Moose suggests. I have used this theory in my first game to get more than three people on the front line. My only suggestiong is to put the Valkyrie in the center instead of the back. Keep the Ranger in back to protect him or you can just put everybody in either center, Left or Right and be able to attack in any direction.

Otherwise the party seems sound. I would definitely miss a pure spell caster but that is just me. If you want a real challenge try a reduced party size at expert.

Currently I am playing with a Human Lord, Mook Ranger, Elf Bishop, and Hobbit Gadgeteer. I am only at level 9 and some battles are certainly tough but I figure in the long run I am going to rock. I just managed to kill the breeder rats then Goon/Sniper combo. It almost every trick in the book but I did it. Nice exp in the end though (over 40K each for just the Goon/Sniper combo)

[Krull]

Thanks evrybody for the replies so far. I've just entered Trynton at level 8ish.

Couple of problems. The Ninja hardly does any damage and the Samurai keeps on missing with Bloodlust. For both of these I've given them a little Strength and then concentrated on Dexterity, Speed and Senses. When the Samurai does hit something and it does no damage, it says something like no penetration. What attribute do I need to penetrate their armour, I'm guessing Strength?

While still in the Monastery, the Samurai did have about three lightning strikes. I'm sure it's been asked several times before, and I apologise for asking again, but what causes the Lightning Strike?

Almost forgot, he did have another lightning strike when fighting the Savant Troopers at the Dark Savant tower but he missed evry time! Aaagghhhhh!

Another problem is that I haven't got anybody to identify anything. I'm going to allow my Monk to do the identifying as it is a Mental spell, therefore building up his Psionics and Mental realm. I'm also trying to get him to be the fastest party member so he can cast Haste when he reaches spell level 4. Good ideas?

On a related matter, is there any way you can get one of your party to do all the identifying and so just have them building up their Artefact skill? It seems to be quite random at the moment. Everybody seems to take it in turns to identify things.

One final thought on formations. At the moment I have the Valkyrie, Ranger and Vi right at the back, three melee fighters in the centre and one on the left wing. Can I improve on that as the left winger cannot reach when the monsters attack from the right?

Thanks.

[Gimli]

"Couple of problems. The Ninja hardly does any damage.."

Well Tryton is adjacent to the Rattkin Tree, home of the CoC - once you get that, well your Ninja will be quite a bit more effective

"the Samurai keeps on missing with Bloodlust."

Basically it will be his Str/Dex and sword skill that determines how often he'll hit. But the spell "enchanted blade" will also help out alot - the problem with an all hyrrid party is it will be a while before you can get that and the other buffing spells up at level 7 reliably.

"For both of these I've given them a little Strength and then concentrated on Dexterity, Speed and Senses. When the Samurai does hit something and it does no damage, it says something like no penetration. What attribute do I need to penetrate their armour, I'm guessing Strength?"

Str + Dex are the best, plus having Enchanted Blade up. Senses is almost worthless for them really.

"While still in the Monastery, the Samurai did have about three lightning strikes. I'm sure it's been asked several times before, and I apologise for asking again, but what causes the Lightning Strike?"

That's a question no one has ever answered with a better response other than "they're random".

"Another problem is that I haven't got anybody to identify anything. I'm going to allow my Monk to do the identifying as it is a Mental spell, therefore building up his Psionics and Mental realm. I'm also trying to get him to be the fastest party member so he can cast Haste when he reaches spell level 4. Good ideas?"

Yes and Yes! =0) If he's going to cast haste alot, skimp on raising your other characters' speed and senses. Those would be good for the monk as both effect initiative, and you want the haster to be able to cast haste quickly.

"On a related matter, is there any way you can get one of your party to do all the identifying and so just have them building up their Artefact skill? It seems to be quite random at the moment. Everybody seems to take it in turns to identify things."

I think they all try to ID things when you right click them, don't think there's a way to select only one.

"One final thought on formations. At the moment I have the Valkyrie, Ranger and Vi right at the back, three melee fighters in the centre and one on the left wing. Can I improve on that as the left winger cannot reach when the monsters attack from the right?"

Well none of your characters will be weak in melee, so you need no special protection for anyone in the formation. I would put either three in the front and three in the middle, or three in the middle and three in the rear, same difference. I would put the Valk, Ranger and Monk in the back (and I'd have the Monk using a staff, I know some people prefer MA but there are some sweet staves and they're extended weapons). Then your rear guys will all have extended range melee weapons and the front guys short range melee weapons, and you won't have flank issues. Really the flanks are more useful to protect weaker melee types (ie, pure casters).

[Krull]

Gimli, thanks for answering my questions so quickly. As far as the Ninja goes yes, I know I'll be OK when I get the CoC, she's using the Faerie Stick and a Shilelagh (is that how it's spelt?) at the moment to build up her Staff and Dual Weapon skills.

My Samurai can only cast L1 Enchanted Blade and Missile Shield at the moment and my Lord can only cst L1 Bless. Oh well, perseverance.

You mentioned that Senses was almost worthless. Why? Doesn't it help initiative and give certain combat bonuses?

I'm really missing my Bard though. Where else can you get a L5 or better Bless spell while climbing Trynton's trees?

My thanks also to True_Moose and MaskedFrog for their advice.

[Gimli]

"You mentioned that Senses was almost worthless. Why? Doesn't it help initiative and give certain combat bonuses?"

Yes it helps initiative, but if you use your Monk to cast haste at the start of battles, you won't need it - a high level haste spell will boost all of your characters' speed stat by 75 points which will be plenty (anyone with at least a 50 in speed will max it out at 125 with the spell on). The only thing senses provides in the way of a combat bonus would be if you max it out, it opens up the "eagle eye" skill that helps you penetrate things with ranged weapons. But by the time you get it you wouldn't need it anyway. It's just not as important to melee types as Str/Dex, not by a longshot, IMHO. Even for ranged attacks Str/Dex are more important than senses, I've played Rangers both ways, my early ones went Dex/Sen, later ones Str/Dex and the later ones did alot more damage; and eagle eye did nothing noticable for me.

[True_Moose]

The link to the post on my party's here Krull. I like your party also though. I love hybrids in Wiz 8.

[el_kalkylus]

What does everybody think? Any comments/constructive criticisms?

I don't like that party. Too many hybrids can't be good, somehow... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Ok, reason why I don't like the party is that it is weak in the beginning, and not so strong in the middle of the game either. A mage would liven up that party alot IMHO.

About your monk, I advice you try the zatoichi bo, which is a staff.

[ 10-04-2002, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: el_kalkylus ]