Robert Jordan vs. Terry Brooks

[Marathon]

Hey guys - I've spent the last couple months reading all of A Song of Ice and Fire and just finished AFFC over the weekend. The whole series has been great. I'm looking to start another series (mainly to pass time until a new book comes out) - for those of you that have read both Sword of Shanarra and Wheel of Time, how would you compare the two, or what would you recommend for someone who likes Martin, dislikes Salvatore?

[Link]

They're two opposites in terms of writing IMHO. I think Jordan started off pretty well with the Wheel of Time series, whereas his latter books are more appropriate as toilet paper. The storyline's grown out of his control and is not in the least bit interesting anymore.

Brooks started with a lame and outright clone of Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, but what I applaud him for is that after that particular book he managed to create some pretty decent volumes. Especially his second series ("The Heritage of Shannara") prove he is an excellent fantasy writer.

[Luvian]

I disagree with Link. I thought the First 3 or so Jordan book had a Lord of the Rings feel. There are some very similar plot elements especially in the first book.

I really liked the latter books better. I think his characters are really interesting, and I'd read about them all day long. He did a very good job creating his world in my opinion.

He does have one weakness in the latter books. He added too many plot lines, in the first few books there were point of view chapters for 3-4 characters, now his cast is way bigger, so you end up with only 1-3 chapters per character as opposed to the 10 chapters they got in the first few ones. This mean that the story move slower.

This isn't a problem if you have 12 book ahead of you like you would if you start the series, you can start on the first and never stop before the 12th one. But for us, it's one year wait between each ones and alone they don't feel enough anymore, that's why so many people are complaining about him.

[Griefmaker]

Although I understand where Luvian is coming from, I tend to agree with Link more. I really liked the first three books the best--they seemed to flow well and you always looked forward to the next chapter. I am on book #6 right now after rereading these books for the fourth time (or more) so that I can remember what has happened for when I buy #11, and the story is starting to grind to a halt. I am already dreading chapters that have the dream-world symbol because I often find these chapters rather boring (this concept was quite interesting at first, but now ho-hum for me).

I also think there are too many minor storylines that do not add much or anything to the story beyond confusion. Some people consider it epic, I consider it soap-opera. In the past, I have found myself ignoring these minor parts and forgetting them immediately after I have read them. I am not one to keep notes on a story (unless I am writing them, of course [img]smile.gif[/img] ) so that I can remember each and every peon. I do have to admit, though, I have been able to keep better track of the peons in this read-through than usual. While some of it is interesting, I still do not know if it adds to the story.

In the end, I have many complaints about the way the stories are written, but I still really enjoy these books. There are many interesting ideas for readers to chew about in their minds, the main storyline itself is quite good, and many of the characters are well done (except for a certain braid-pulling wench who thinks she is too good for her britches--she reminds me of a certain "B with an ITCH" ex-girlfriend I once had). Even with my complaints, I still recommend these books to people. However, I am glad that Jordan is wrapping these books up. If he were to die before finishing them, his grave would constantly be wet from millions of unhappy readers pissing on it [img]redface.gif[/img] .

[Albromor]

I agree with Link and Griefmaker concerning Jordan. His Wheel of Time series started out great, especially the first 3 books though I found it to be decent enough through 6. But when he started a new book by placing us in the middle of an issue or plot with characters we never encountered before I said, "That is it!" And I never returned since. Entirely too wordy, too convuluted, and in the latter books Jordan takes page after page of basically telling us nothing. Truly a waste of money. He desperately needed an editor -- so where were they? I can honestly say that I really don't care how this series ends.

As for Brooks I truly liked the first 2 series of the Shannara books. I stuck wih the 3rd but there is only so many times an author can dip from the same well.

[Link]

I agree on the later books of Brooks - hmm, that made me sound like some rhyming lunatic. I *did* like his more modernistic books (airships, the Federation etc.) in the beginning, especially the ones that started off with the voyage of the Jerle Shannara to the uncharted regions of the Blue Divide . The second and third book of that series - Anthrax and Morgawr were getting a little too weird for me. Without spoiling you, I think these two books are definitely meant for the true fans out there - I'm not sure I belong in that last category.

As for the Shannara-series overall. There's an absolute truth in the statement that 'there's only so many times an author can dip from the same well'. The ongoing, intertwining stories of the lives of the Shannara-, Leah and Elessedil families is getting a little boring. As is Brooks' nasty habit of finding new ways to end the line of Druids in Paranor, and all of the sudden - abracadabra! - finding a new isolated spirit that is willing the bear the torch for the time being.
That being said, I do stick with my original statements: there's absolutely some truly golden fantasy-tellings in Brooks' stories, especially the Wishsong (with all its malfunctioning and side-effects later on in the story) is a way of magic quite intruiging.

[Luvian]

Originally posted by Griefmaker: Although I understand where Luvian is coming from, I tend to agree with Link more. I really liked the first three books the best--they seemed to flow well and you always looked forward to the next chapter. I am on book #6 right now after rereading these books for the fourth time (or more) so that I can remember what has happened for when I buy #11, and the story is starting to grind to a halt. I am already dreading chapters that have the dream-world symbol because I often find these chapters rather boring (this concept was quite interesting at first, but now ho-hum for me).

Funny, these are the chapters I like the most, anything with Egwene, Avienda, Elayne... I like intrigue and dialogues and I'm uninterested in the Rand chapters because they're moslty just plain old fighting. Now it's even worse since he's basically powerless. If it wasn't for his romances I wouldn't mind if he was writted out of the story.

I also think there are too many minor storylines that do not add much or anything to the story beyond confusion. Some people consider it epic, I consider it soap-opera. In the past, I have found myself ignoring these minor parts and forgetting them immediately after I have read them. I am not one to keep notes on a story (unless I am writing them, of course [img]smile.gif[/img] ) so that I can remember each and every peon. I do have to admit, though, I have been able to keep better track of the peons in this read-through than usual. While some of it is interesting, I still do not know if it adds to the story.

There aren't enough for me. I'm absorbing it all, subplots are to me what crack is to an addict.

In the end, I have many complaints about the way the stories are written, but I still really enjoy these books. There are many interesting ideas for readers to chew about in their minds, the main storyline itself is quite good, and many of the characters are well done (except for a certain braid-pulling wench who thinks she is too good for her britches--she reminds me of a certain "B with an ITCH" ex-girlfriend I once had).

The fact you hate her prove she's well done. If she wasn't you wouldn't care.

Even with my complaints, I still recommend these books to people. However, I am glad that Jordan is wrapping these books up. If he were to die before finishing them, his grave would constantly be wet from millions of unhappy readers pissing on it [img]redface.gif[/img] .

If he was releasing say, a novel every 3 months, I wouldn't mind them seeming so short, but sadly it's one year minimum between them, and I want something to happen, even the subplots are crawling due to lack of space, so I guess it's a good thing he's ending it, something satisfying is finally going to happen.

I'll miss that world when it's done. I've read so much about these characters it almost feel like they're real.

Edit: Adding so much was a mistake, as far as writing goes, but I love the world in spite of it, or maybe because of it. I think his problem is that he fell in love with his characters, and some of his old ones like Rand fell out of favor. Some characters, like Nynaeve, were probably first created for the support cast only, but he started liking them more, elaborated on them, gave them some chapters, and before he knew it, he had a couple of series in one. If you think about it, Rand, Perrin and Mat are getting less precence. It's picking up in the latest books now that Mat encountered a certain someone, and Perrin has some domestic problems, but basically there is 4 story. The Rand/Mat/Perrin one about the Dragon and saving the world, there is Egwene/Aes Sedai plots, there Elayne's succession, and there is now the Mat/Senchan sory. The rest is pretty much sublots, although the Aiel were pretty close from branching out into a full plot. Perrin was also close from having his own stuff, but it was still related to the dragon, if loosely.

Of all those, my favorite would be the Elayne's succesion, the Egwene/Aes Sedai plots, mat/senchan, and then the Rand stuff, in that order.

[ 01-20-2006, 04:49 AM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

[pritchke]

<font face="Verdana" size="3" color="#009999">I am about to start my First Jordan books with the first book in the wheel of time, and the prequel to that book. The store Person told me to read book one than the prequel (A New Spring). I liked the 4 book series of Brooks books that I read. I did not think they were great but good, and intersting it was the series with The Druid of Shannara and Elf Queen of Shannara. Can't remember the series but I remember it being four books. But they were not good enough to want me to read more of his books with Shannara in the title as I though it would be retarded to develop these characters even more. </font>

[ 02-01-2006, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Marathon]

I went ahead and started the Wheel of Time series after finally finishing up the Dark Tower (which I really enjoyed after thinking books 5 and 6 were way too slow). So far so good, although I'm only a few chapters in. Anyone here a Dark Tower fan?

[Morgeruat]

in general the Shannara series each revolve around seperate generations, which provides Brooks a great deal of leeway in who he kills off (there has been a change since Heritage (4-books series) that has evolved into the Jerle Shannara Series (3 Books) and High Druid (another 3) but each series is self-contained, only restricted in characters to cameos of less than important prior characters (this began to change with the current series where the parents of the main character are involved but otherwise the only important recurring character has been the druid(s).

That said, the magic seems to have gone out of his world, and he has to keep stretching farther and farther to have a new story, rather than looking at the fact that it's been over 1000 years since the events of Sword and they could revisit some of the towns and cities of the original books and show how they've grown (sort of did this in the Heritage series), rather than fleeing the four lands for unexplored territory to have adventures in (the elves in Elf Queen, the search for the black elfstone in First King and Druid, search for whatever in Jerle Shannara, etc) and it only really serves to make the main world seem smaller and less important. The westlands were vast and uncharted in Elfstones, now it's a very small area with a few noted cities that were developed early and are now ignored, same thing with the eastlands (explored in WishSong and the Heritage books) etc etc.

But I have the WoT book ten in hardcover but haven't been able to bring myself to read it, I have just lost interest in the series completely, while at least Brooks can keep me coming back knowing I'll probably be disappointed (it's been 4 books now and I haven't been happy with one yet)