Yoshimonk?

[SixOfSpades]

While rolling my newest PC (Swashbuckler->Mage) the other day, it struck me that I was going to have one crappy dungeon party: Swashbuckler + Imoen + Yoshimo = Way too many Thieves, especially when we're all specializing in the same things. How the hell am I gonna take on Improved Ilyich with these clowns? What the starting dungeon needs is some more Warrior muscle, not a Thief that duplicates what the party already has.

Then it occured to me: Yoshimo....not as a Thief, but a Monk. He'd hardly be much of a kick-butt fighter at this level, of course, but he'd be more useful than a Bounty Hunter. It wouldn't require any changes to his background, his soundset, his personality--and the original Yoshimo picture looks almost exactly like the Male Monk paperdoll.

What I'm curious about now is just what would argue against Yoshimo being a Monk. Here's what I've got so far:

• Upon entering the Docks, Yoshimo breaks into his spiel about how he has to report to Renal Bloodscalp to repay his debt for being an independent operator in Shadow Thief territory--a mission which only makes sense for a Thief or Bard.
• If you're the sort of person who talks to Commoners, one of them complains of having lost her purse, which means she can't buy food. Yoshimo just *ahem* happens to have picked it up off the ground a few moments ago, and returns it to her. Now, a Monk could get away with this, as it's not impossible that the purse could actually have fallen, but we're obviously meant to read that Yoshimo lifted the purse from the Commoner.
• Yoshimo and Kelsey have a banter which, among other things, paints the two of them as natural enemies--the Merchant and the Thief. Kelsey would have no animosity against a Monk.
• It's kinda odd that an NPC of the one class that doesn't need weapons would have, as starting equipment, a personal weapon.

Your thoughts on this?

[theGrimm]

Let's see. I can't offer any more overwhelming evidence, but it's the little things that add up to the whole.

-On the ship, Yoshimo comments that he had no small amount of success gambling against Saemon's crew, even going so far as to belittle their card skills. I personally have a hard time seeing a monk taking pride in his gambling skills.
-It's a bit flimsy an argument, but Yoshi's entire situation doesn't seem to fit a monks personality...


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Would a monk consent to having a Gease imposed? Although one could argue that it wasn't voluntary, Yoshi says that "those who enter into his service" have a gease imposed, which seems to suggest it IS voluntary.

A gease would not appeal to a monk whose belief system is based on purity of mind and body.

And if it were forced upon him, a monk would be more likely to oppose it, surely? I could understand a thief being cowardly, but a monk would display more of an internal struggle rather than meekly submitting to that fate.


-"You're right behind me, right?"

OTOH, Yoshimoshos battle cry does seem somewhat "monkly".

[wellard]

Yoshi as a monk !! well the tourists would love that

[Petor23]

Well, its always a possibility for a mod

[Annatar]

Lets try...

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Upon entering the Docks, Yoshimo breaks into his spiel about how he has to report to Renal Bloodscalp to repay his debt for being an independent operator in Shadow Thief territory--a mission which only makes sense for a Thief or Bard.

Though, maybe Yoshimo isn't an thief operating but just a thug in the district .. a monk can be quit a bouncer/protector for a group of thiefs, making his affiliation to thiefs more placed.. though I can't remember what is stated in the conversation with Renal Bloodscalp and Yoshimo, it will most likely state Yoshimo is a thief..

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: If you're the sort of person who talks to Commoners, one of them complains of having lost her purse, which means she can't buy food. Yoshimo just *ahem* happens to have picked it up off the ground a few moments ago, and returns it to her. Now, a Monk could get away with this, as it's not impossible that the purse could actually have fallen, but we're obviously meant to read that Yoshimo lifted the purse from the Commoner.

Monks are quit agile and swift in dealing with things, robbing an old lady isn't the hardest thing in the world, not even for a skilled figher with no training in the art of thieving... people can make strange jumps when in need for gold

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Yoshimo and Kelsey have a banter which, among other things, paints the two of them as natural enemies--the Merchant and the Thief. Kelsey would have no animosity against a Monk.

Don't install Kelsey... don't have a good argument for this one..

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: It's kinda odd that an NPC of the one class that doesn't need weapons would have, as starting equipment, a personal weapon.

Lose it.. give him something that reminds him of his monk-hood.. his family blade does not involve any quests in BGII IIRC, no harm in taking it away and giving something usefull in return..

Originally posted by TheGrimm: -On the ship, Yoshimo comments that he had no small amount of success gambling against Saemon's crew, even going so far as to belittle their card skills. I personally have a hard time seeing a monk taking pride in his gambling skills.

Why can't a monk entertain himself? sure they are one with mind and spiriti constantly .. though chanting and praying gets boring after awhile, and on a ship filled with sea pirates it becomes even harder to find a rumorless space to worship his monkhood, taking pride for it is kinda logical for a semi-evil monk .. he is robbing money from villians ( I suppose he sees pirates that way ) in a fair game.

Originally posted by TheGrimm: -It's a bit flimsy an argument, but Yoshi's entire situation doesn't seem to fit a monks personality... . . . . . . Would a monk consent to having a Gease imposed? Although one could argue that it wasn't voluntary, Yoshi says that "those who enter into his service" have a gease imposed, which seems to suggest it IS voluntary. A gease would not appeal to a monk whose belief system is based on purity of mind and body. And if it were forced upon him, a monk would be more likely to oppose it, surely? I could understand a thief being cowardly, but a monk would display more of an internal struggle rather than meekly submitting to that fate.

They are one with their mind.. wich can be easily broken by an evil elven arch mage, the will of an individual is strong but even characters with the highest charisma can't with-stand the power of well used mindcontrolling magic, Yoshimo is a bounty hunter sure he gets paid to fetch us.. lets just pressume Yoshimonk was forced by Irenicus to find us.. kinda fits his ways of dealing (Irenicus), taking the one with the highest level of intergrity with body and soul and force him to do something against his will with a Geas, pretty tormenting for a monk I must think..

[ 08-30-2004, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Annatar ]

[Dragonshadow]

Originally posted by Annatar: quote: Originally posted by SixOfSpades: It's kinda odd that an NPC of the one class that doesn't need weapons would have, as starting equipment, a personal weapon.

Lose it.. give him something that reminds him of his monk-hood.. his family blade does not involve any quests in BGII IIRC, no harm in taking it away and giving something usefull in return..

[/QUOTE]Like those things taht you put on your knuckles...

It's a good idea. And anyway, he might not have to be a lawful good monk. They can be any lawful alignment, and doesn't LN do what they're told to?

[Armen]

this is a bit broadbrush but could he be a sort of mischievous comedy-style monk - serious at the core but actually quite irreverent about what he sees as trivial and fleeting matters - maybe he just got involved with the thieves because he doesn't think property is important . . .

[SixOfSpades]

Yoshimo's banter upon arriving in Brynnlaw: The only exact words I remember are "They seemed to think themselves the only ones who knew how to play cards, oddly." Now, I have no more objection to a Thief or Monk learning how to play card games than I do their learning how to speak Common. What I need to look into here is the amount of emphasis placed on winning the card game: A Thief would naturally take pride in being able to rob people legally as well as illegally, but a Monk would most likely fail to see (or disagree with) the point of gambling as anything but an idle pastime.

Yoshimo and the Geas: I can see a Monk subitting to this--yes, undergoing the Geas does have to be voluntary (mind-controlling spells will not work), but that would all still work. Default Yoshimo is True Neutral, while the nearest legal Monk alignment is Lawful Neutral. Whichever alignment Yoshimonk gets, the backstory makes sense: Irenicus sees that Yoshimo has potential, so he casts Friends on himself and explains that he has been bitterly wronged, having his soul stolen from him by some wicked Elves. Yoshimonk sees either a chance to help the underdog or to restore a wrongdoing, and so agrees to work for Irenicus. Some suspicions are raised when the subject of a Geas comes up, but Yoshimonk is sure that this mage is simply a stern taskmaster who will help Yoshimonk become more disciplined.

Yoshimo and Renal Bloodscalp: Try as I might, I just can't see a Monk doing anything the Shadow Thieves could object to. Even if he had (for example) a personal item that let him cast Knock, there's no real reason for a Monk to steal things when they're supposed to avoid physical attachments. Then again, the only Monk in default SoA is Anishai, who works for Mae'Var. What the hell?!?

Yoshimo and the Katana: The Katana in itself is all right--Monks have 3 Quick Weapons, so 1=Fist, 2=Katana for those who are immune to Normal, and 3=Sling or Darts. But I'm considering Yoshimo's Knuckledusters, toned-down Gauntlets of Crushing, which add +1 THAC0 and +1 Damage when attacking with fists.

[Klorox]

6 of spades: I'm curious about your comment with monks having a difficult time learning Common. I mean, c'mon, that's just silly.

Not every monk is your stereotypical short asian dude with a fu-manchu goatee.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by Klorox: 6 of spades: I'm curious about your comment with monks having a difficult time learning Common. I mean, c'mon, that's just silly. Not every monk is your stereotypical short asian dude with a fu-manchu goatee.

::arches eyebrow:: I think you missed the point...