The ultimate damage disher... (Jim,Dundee,Alson...)

[Xen]

Wich character do you think dishes the most damage in one round. You can have all the HLA`s,weapons and Dual,Multi classes. I am interested

1)Bout damage with weapons not spells.I say that the character is:
Kensai->Thief dualed at level 24 becuase of Thief HLA called Assasination.


Kensai->Thief:dualwielding Scarlet Ninja-To and Belm for 5 ApR. He would be Improved Hasted wich means 10 ApR. One round before that he would activate Kai wich lasts 10 seconds and then round after he would choose Assasination.

That means that he would have 2/3 of this round Maximum damage with Assasination.


But maybe Assasain->Fighter can kick his butt with x7 Assasination. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]


ADD] F/M can also kick his butt.-Improved Alacrity,Greater Whirlwind,Critical Strike and Staff of The Ram +6.


So can anyone of you gurus--Jim-The God of numbers,Alson-the spell master and Dundee-the Ultimate BG II Master--calculate the thing? I would but my head would explode into tiny little pieces...

FFFFFF; font-family:Verdana">DSlaytern] Just realised the title was screwing up the Forum List. Adding a space so that it will linebreak.

[ 09-30-2003, 05:02 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[SixOfSpades]

Potion of Storm Giant Strength, then somebody's Holy Symbol, for 25 STR.

Kensai->Thief using Mislead wouldn't even need Assassination, as all hits under Mislead are Backstabs anyway.

Kai.

Greater Whirlwind + Staff of the Ram.

Where'd the enemies go?

[Dundee Slaytern]

For potential maximum, Sarevock. Refer to Jim's post in the ToB Classic Threads.

On average though... most probably the Kensai->Thief due to Kai.

[Leslie]

Sarevok can be really devastating if his Deathbringer attack happens, but that is not so often.

Still no one ready to calculate the damage in one round from Kensai/Thief of Assassin/Fighter ?

[Dundee Slaytern]

Why? Both have the same ApR. Assassin->Fighter have high potential damage, but the Kensai->Thief have the Kai Ability and hence a better average damage. It is already a foregone conclusion.

[Leslie]

Assassin->Fighter has a 7x backstab which will give him an edge with Assassination HLA - but he will be hitting with average damage.
Kensai->Thief will have 5x backstab but will be hitting with maximum damage.

Which is better ? I belive 7x backstab wins.

But if we say that enemy cannot be backstabbed, then they both can use Improved Haste + Critical Strike, and here Kensai/Thief wins easily.

Here is a another contestant - F/M - with Improved Alacrity + Greater Whirlwind + Critical Strike - Staff of The Ram +6 - the most damaging weapon which could have some advantages over Kensai bunuses - or not ?

That's why Xen wanted to have some numbers - we are not really sure who is the ultimate damage disher.

ADD] Kensai/Thief can also use Staff of The Ram +6 but even Improve Hasted he will have 5 ApR - right ? So F/M with 10 (GWW) easily wins.

[ 09-30-2003, 05:03 AM: Message edited by: Leslie ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Leslie: Assassin->Fighter has a 7x backstab which will give him an edge with Assassination HLA - but he will be hitting with average damage. Kensai->Thief will have 5x backstab but will be hitting with maximum damage. Which is better ? I belive 7x backstab wins.

Have you actually read Jim's post? The numbers are not that different... ...

But if we say that enemy cannot be backstabbed, then they both can use Improved Haste + Critical Strike, and here Kensai/Thief wins easily.

By a mile.

Here is a another contestant - F/M - with Improved Alacrity + Greater Whirlwind + Critical Strike - Staff of The Ram +6 - the most damaging weapon which could have some advantages over Kensai bunuses - or not ?

And so exactly what weapon is the Kensai->Thief using then? The Dagger+1? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

That's why Xen wanted to have some numbers - we are not really sure who is the ultimate damage disher.

And now you know why I say it is redundant.

ADD] Kensai/Thief can also use Staff of The Ram +6 but even Improve Hasted he will have 5 ApR - right ? So F/M with 10 (GWW) easily wins.

Base: 2
Gauntlets: 3/2
5*: 4
Oil of Speed: 5
Improved Haste: 10

[Leslie]

Oh, I didn't know that you can combine Oil of Speed and Improved Haste to achieve 10 ApR. Cool.
But you also use Grandmastery patch which original game didn't implement. I didn't count on that. (I don't use it) Without that patch he would reach 8 ApR.

Kensai->Thief in my original thought was supposed to be dualwielding to achieve 10 ApR - and both weapons must be able to backstab. So something like CFury and Scarlet Ninja-To or something like that.

[ 09-30-2003, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: Leslie ]

[Jim]

Originally posted by Xen: Wich character do you think dishes the most damage in one round. You can have all the HLA`s,weapons and Dual,Multi classes. I am interested

As has been concluded above,

• the assassin/figher has a higher potential backstab than a kensai/thief (but only with a certain weapon )
• The pure classed kensai hits the hardest in general melee assuming we can't backstab/backstabbing is unfeasible
• Sarevok holds the record for highest damage melee strike
• The Figher/Mage has the *potential* to rack up the highest amount of damage in one round, but critical hits are by no means guaranteed in ToB, so you're only certain to be using GWW to full effect in which case, a kensai would wipe the floor with this one.

Kensai->Thief:dualwielding Scarlet Ninja-To and Belm for 5 ApR. He would be Improved Hasted wich means 10 ApR. One round before that he would activate Kai wich lasts 10 seconds and then round after he would choose Assasination.

and...

Kensai->Thief in my original thought was supposed to be dualwielding to achieve 10 ApR - and both weapons must be able to backstab. So something like CFury and Scarlet Ninja-To or something like that.

Slight nitpicks...the Scarlet Ninja-To is a Monk only weapon, and therefore cannot be used to backstab with. Backstabbable weapons are only those that can be wielded by a single classed thief. Sure we can equip it and use it thanks to a certain HLA, but backstabbing is a big no no. Also worth noting is that its extra APR totally screws with improved haste and GWW. I had a swashbuckler who dual wielded Belm and Scarlet (4 APR base), and when using improved haste or WW, the APR only increased to 5 (in both cases), rather than doubling or being set to 10. It turned out to be scarlet that was causing the problem, so I'm assuming that a fighter->thief would have the same issues here.

Leslie said: Assassin->Fighter has a 7x backstab which will give him an edge with Assassination HLA - but he will be hitting with average damage. Kensai->Thief will have 5x backstab but will be hitting with maximum damage. Which is better ? I belive 7x backstab wins.

I agree with Dundee here - the number's aren't that different - the Assassin->Fighter is not hands down better than a kensai->thief when it comes to backstabbing. The assassin only really wins hands down when using the SoTR+6 due to its huge base damage. Replace this with say, CF+3, and the Kensai backstab will be stronger.

My conclusion: Backstabbing is not guaranteed, critical hits are not guaranteed, so I'm awarding the "Max damage in one round award" to a pure kensai with GWW and the SoTR+6 (sure this isn't the highest theoretical damage in the game by any means, but for pure reliable grut, you just can't beat a pure kensai )

[Leslie]

Wow, Jim is back !

OK - I follow your logic but here would be my nitpick: If you use SotR then you have 15% chance that your opponent would be knocked back and stunned and this quite reliable.

In this case you would have to chase him and your GWW would "expire". Then you would have to start another GWW - and maybe you would knock your opponent even further.

So not really ideal situation for dishing large amounts of damage.
I would think of another weapon ...

Just a quick question: how long does the stun from SoTR last ?
And from CFury - 1 round ?

[ 10-07-2003, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Leslie ]