elemental princes

ecob16 · 10-02-2003, 09:46 AM

hey there does anyone know the name and (if possible) stats of all the elemental princes (not just the ones from throne of bhaal) thanx loads

Morgeruat · 10-02-2003, 12:51 PM

I can look it up when I get home, there are 5 Elemental Princes (Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Ice - Ice is technically a paraelemental, but the lord is powerful enough to be considered with the traditional four) and most of them have offspring that are working to depose them.

Indemaijinj · 10-02-2003, 01:25 PM

http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG2SR/Main.htm

The Spell Reference to the rescue again!

EDIT: Oh sorry, must remember to always read the first post thoroughly.

I don't know and I don't think I will ever be able to find out. Unlike outer planar lords elemental princes are not constant fixtures in the planar landscape. They get deposed and succeeded all the time (in some planes this happens faster than in others). Finally it is widely debated exactly how high up in the chain of command they are.

What I can give you is a list of all known inner planes plus some speculated ones. All of them except the energy planes should theoretically have elemental princes (though it is doubted whether the Plane of Vacuum has any).

The inner planes can be ordered into four (and two speculative) groups:

The Two Energy Planes:

Positive Energy Plane
Negative Energy Plane

Also known as the Plane of Life and the Plane of Death they represent the ultimate creative and destructive principle. Both environments are extremely hostile to outsiders. There are no known positive and negative elementals in the classical sense (since they are planes of energy, not matter) but there are a few native creatures who are all quite strange and wondrous. Also the Negative Energy Plane is inhabited by scores of undead who have fled persecution on the Prime.

The Four Classical Elemental Planes:

Plane of Air
Plane of Fire
Plane of Earth
Plane of Water

Most people know about these elemental planes and they are the most frequently visited. Elementals from these planes are also the most frequently summoned. All of them are inhabited by true elementals as well as scores of different elemental creatures (arrowhawks, xorn, salamanders, nereids, mephits, genies etc.) The Plane of Air and the Plane of Water are also home to a lot of outsiders, mainly from the Prime due to their rather benign environment).

The Four Paraelemental Planes:

Plane of Ice
Plane of Smoke
Plane of Magma
Plane of Ooze

These planes are mixtures of two of the four classical elements Ice being Water/Air, Smoke being Air/Fire, Magma being Fire/Earth and Ooze being Earth/Water. They are in most aspects similar to the four Classical Elemental Planes. They have true elementals (called paraelementals or just paramentals) and various elemental type creatures. The Plane of Ooze is also home to a large array of technically non-native species although it is seldomly visited by planar travellers.

The Eight Quasielemental Planes:

Positive:
Plane of Radiance
Plane of Lightning
Plane of Minerals
Plane of Steam/Mist

Negative:
Plane of Vacuum
Plane of Ash
Plane of Dust
Plane of Salt

The quasielemental planes are all a combination of one of the four classical elements and one of the two energy types. They represent the former "warped" by the powers of the latter. Radiance is positive air, lightning is positive fire, mineral is positive earth and steam/mist is positive water. Vacuum is negative air, ash is negative fire, dust is negative earth and salt is negative water.

The positive ones are the element in an empowered or agitated state while the negative ones are in a wasting/destroyed state. These planes have true elementals as well as scores of different elemental creatures, mephits being the most well known. They do not have many non-native life forms and they are seldomly visited even though some are quite habitable.

Note on the Plane of Vacuum (negative air):
While intuition tells us that there should be a class of "vacuum elementals" as well as a race of "vacuum mephits" such creatures have yet to be sighted. All observations done seems to indicate that the Plane of Vacuum is totally devoid of life, nay, totally devoid of anything at all. It should be said that the Plane of Vacuum is probably the least visited/researched of the known planes. It's role in the great planar system is still a conundrum.

Note on the Plane of Steam/Mist (positive water):
This is not so much a debate of the nature of the plane as a debate over it's true name. The debate is mostly kept alive by the steam mephits and the mist mephits,(two species native to this plane) where it is a source of great animosity. Weirdly enough this quasielement is known as "Rain" on some Prime Material planes, most notably the world of Athas (Dark Sun). Also recently the new term "Vapor" has arisen. Mainly as a diplomatic form to use when dealing with steam and mist mephits.

Some speculated inner planes:

The Quasi-paraelemental planes:

Plane of Crystal
Plane of Spark
Plane of Obsidian
Plane of Clay

Plane of Frost
Plane of Fumes
Plane of Pumice
Plane of Silt

This group of planes should presumably be Quasi- (positive and negative) forms of the paraelemental planes. Though the existence of these planes are not universally accepted truths there are a fair minority of scholars who supports the notion. There are also several planeswalkers who claim to have travelled on these planes. Still the reports of these "explorers" are somewhat inconsistent and could easily have described areas of of other well known inner planes. (The "Plane of Obsidian" could easily be a slightly fire-dominant area of the Plane of Mineral for example). Most regard the ideas as tall tales generated by the academica of Sigil in their endless pursuit of something new.

The mysterious "central plane":

The known plane can be viewed as forming an imaginary "sphere" if you array them after their familiarity with each other. This have led many to speculate that there must be something inside this "sphere". A central inner plane lying between positive and negative, fire and water etc. There have been many speculations on what this plane could possibly be.

Some claim that it is the Plane of Shadow, a fairly well known demi-plane. This would of course mean that the Plane of Shadow is not a mere demi-plane but a true inner plane. Still it seems a bit too esoteric to be the grand center of the Inner Planes.

The most novel idea must be the "Plane of Time". If the Positive Energy Plane represent "beginning" and the Negative Energy Plane represents "end" then the area between them must be occupied by the flow of time. This also meshes finely with the idea that the passing of time is the most fundamental of all natural forces. It is also notable that all the inner planes seems to be affected by time in an equally "normal" manner and can thus claim "familiarity" to this purpoted central plane. The reports on the Plane of Time itself are extremely sketchy. Many adherents to this theory excuses this by claiming that the Plane of Time is extremely hard to reach. Much harder than any known plane. A notion that has some merit. Gaining access to the antechamber of time itself would require something beyond the extraordinary. Also it doesn't help that all those who are believed to have been to this plane are now suffering from acute dementia. The most coherent thing that has been extracted from them are some ramblings about a "great whirlpool" or "spiral". Their guardian psychiatrists have all pleaded that one does not inquire as to what is at the center of this "whirlpool" or "spiral".

Note: The Plane of Time theory has gained extra credibility as some psionically gifted persons seems able to manipulate time as though it was an element. Even collapse it into some kind of substance.

Finally some believe that what is in the center of the Inner Planes is none other than the good old Prime Material Plane. This is supported by the fact that all elemental forces are clearly present on the Prime and naturally ocurring elemental vortexes are not uncommon. Still it seems odd that access to the inner planes from the Prime most commonly involves the transitional Ethereal Plane and also the Prime seems too different from the other inner planes with it's numerous crystal spheres suspended in the phlogiston. This idea is supported mostly on primes where the Elements play a strong role in religion and mythology. The denizens of the Inner Planes doesn't seem to fond of the notion.

[ 10-02-2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Indemaijinj ]

Dron_Cah · 10-02-2003, 03:27 PM

What are these "elemental princes"?

Xen · 10-02-2003, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dron_Cah:
What are these "elemental princes"?

In ToB Druids HLA spell-Elemental Summoning.

Quote:

Greater Elemental Summoning
The ultimate druidic summon, these guys kick butt! All three have fighting abilities comparable to a level 15 Fighter, good magic resistance, loads of hit points, immunity to weapons of +2 enchantment or lower and appropriate elemental damage resistances. They can see the invisible. Their fists strike as +3 weapons and dispel magic on a hit. Each of them has further individual perks:

Chan, Prince of Air: A permanent Globe of Blades. His fists deal Electrical damage. Chan is Evil... watch your Holy Smites.

Zaaman Rul, Prince of Fire: A permanent Fireshield (Red) and two Flamestrike spells. His fists deal Fire damage (duh).

Sunnis, Prince of Earth: Two Earthquake spells and immense Strength.

Lord · 10-02-2003, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xen:

quote:
Originally posted by Dron_Cah:
What are these "elemental princes"?

In ToB Druids HLA spell-Elemental Summoning.

Quote:

Greater Elemental Summoning
The ultimate druidic summon, these guys kick butt! All three have fighting abilities comparable to a level 15 Fighter, good magic resistance, loads of hit points, immunity to weapons of +2 enchantment or lower and appropriate elemental damage resistances. They can see the invisible. Their fists strike as +3 weapons and dispel magic on a hit. Each of them has further individual perks:

Chan, Prince of Air: A permanent Globe of Blades. His fists deal Electrical damage. Chan is Evil... watch your Holy Smites.

Zaaman Rul, Prince of Fire: A permanent Fireshield (Red) and two Flamestrike spells. His fists deal Fire damage (duh).

Sunnis, Prince of Earth: Two Earthquake spells and immense Strength.

[/QUOTE]or greater elemental summoning (ToB). That one automatically summons an elemental prince.

ecob16 · 10-03-2003, 06:30 AM

thanx alot you guys are so knowledgable, also hows about entemoch and ogremoch from one of the drizzt books?

Xen · 10-03-2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ecob16:
thanx alot you guys are so knowledgable, also hows about entemoch and ogremoch from one of the drizzt books?

No,no Elementals from Drizzt`s books...

Raistlin Majere · 10-04-2003, 10:30 AM

im not too familiar with elemental lore, but i believe there are two elemental princes in each of the "classical" elemental planes, good and evil princes. for example, Ogremoch is the evil elemental prince of the plane of earth, whilst Sunnis is the good. Zaaman-Rul and Chan are both evil, i believe, but if im right there should be good aligned princes of those elements. ill see if i can get more info on this subject...if i can, ill get back to you

ADD] a few corrections:

Chan, apparently, isnt the evil air prince: Yan-C-Bin is.
Cryonax is the prince, or atleast overlord, of the plance of Ice.
Olhydra is the prince(ess) of the plane of Water.
Crystalle is the overlord of minerals(salt and the like).

thats all that were listed. im not too sure anymore if there are evil and good princes in all the elemental planes anymore, though...

[ 10-04-2003, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Raistlin Majere ]

Link · 10-04-2003, 11:05 AM

Google search: voila!

Cryonax, Prince of Evil Cold Creatures, is neutral evil. He is connected to the elemental planes of air and water, and draws power from the negative material plane.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Imix is the Prince of Evil Fire Creatures, notably efreeti and salamanders. This neutral evil is in conflict with Olhydra. He lives within the elemental plane of fire.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ogremoch is neutral evil. The Prince of Evil Earth Creatures (xorn, umber hulks, khargra) lives on the elemental plane of earth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Olhydra, again neutral evil, is the Princess of Evil Water Creatures (sea hags, water weirds, sahuagin). She lives on the elemental plane of water.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yan-C-Bin, Prince of Evil Aerial Creatures (cloud giants, invisible stalkers, wind walkers), is neutral evil. He exists on the elemental plane of air.

~~~~~~~~

For the good version I could not find anything useful, but this site said something about Elemental Kings and Queens:
http://www.cmc.net/~rtaylor/greyhawk/gods/lists/

10-02-2003, 01:25 PM	#3
Indemaijinj Symbol of Cyric Join Date: June 15, 2002 Location: Denmark Age: 44 Posts: 1,163	http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG2SR/Main.htm The Spell Reference to the rescue again! EDIT: Oh sorry, must remember to always read the first post thoroughly. I don't know and I don't think I will ever be able to find out. Unlike outer planar lords elemental princes are not constant fixtures in the planar landscape. They get deposed and succeeded all the time (in some planes this happens faster than in others). Finally it is widely debated exactly how high up in the chain of command they are. What I can give you is a list of all known inner planes plus some speculated ones. All of them except the energy planes should theoretically have elemental princes (though it is doubted whether the Plane of Vacuum has any). The inner planes can be ordered into four (and two speculative) groups: The Two Energy Planes: Positive Energy Plane Negative Energy Plane Also known as the Plane of Life and the Plane of Death they represent the ultimate creative and destructive principle. Both environments are extremely hostile to outsiders. There are no known positive and negative elementals in the classical sense (since they are planes of energy, not matter) but there are a few native creatures who are all quite strange and wondrous. Also the Negative Energy Plane is inhabited by scores of undead who have fled persecution on the Prime. The Four Classical Elemental Planes: Plane of Air Plane of Fire Plane of Earth Plane of Water Most people know about these elemental planes and they are the most frequently visited. Elementals from these planes are also the most frequently summoned. All of them are inhabited by true elementals as well as scores of different elemental creatures (arrowhawks, xorn, salamanders, nereids, mephits, genies etc.) The Plane of Air and the Plane of Water are also home to a lot of outsiders, mainly from the Prime due to their rather benign environment). The Four Paraelemental Planes: Plane of Ice Plane of Smoke Plane of Magma Plane of Ooze These planes are mixtures of two of the four classical elements Ice being Water/Air, Smoke being Air/Fire, Magma being Fire/Earth and Ooze being Earth/Water. They are in most aspects similar to the four Classical Elemental Planes. They have true elementals (called paraelementals or just paramentals) and various elemental type creatures. The Plane of Ooze is also home to a large array of technically non-native species although it is seldomly visited by planar travellers. The Eight Quasielemental Planes: Positive: Plane of Radiance Plane of Lightning Plane of Minerals Plane of Steam/Mist Negative: Plane of Vacuum Plane of Ash Plane of Dust Plane of Salt The quasielemental planes are all a combination of one of the four classical elements and one of the two energy types. They represent the former "warped" by the powers of the latter. Radiance is positive air, lightning is positive fire, mineral is positive earth and steam/mist is positive water. Vacuum is negative air, ash is negative fire, dust is negative earth and salt is negative water. The positive ones are the element in an empowered or agitated state while the negative ones are in a wasting/destroyed state. These planes have true elementals as well as scores of different elemental creatures, mephits being the most well known. They do not have many non-native life forms and they are seldomly visited even though some are quite habitable. Note on the Plane of Vacuum (negative air): While intuition tells us that there should be a class of "vacuum elementals" as well as a race of "vacuum mephits" such creatures have yet to be sighted. All observations done seems to indicate that the Plane of Vacuum is totally devoid of life, nay, totally devoid of anything at all. It should be said that the Plane of Vacuum is probably the least visited/researched of the known planes. It's role in the great planar system is still a conundrum. Note on the Plane of Steam/Mist (positive water): This is not so much a debate of the nature of the plane as a debate over it's true name. The debate is mostly kept alive by the steam mephits and the mist mephits,(two species native to this plane) where it is a source of great animosity. Weirdly enough this quasielement is known as "Rain" on some Prime Material planes, most notably the world of Athas (Dark Sun). Also recently the new term "Vapor" has arisen. Mainly as a diplomatic form to use when dealing with steam and mist mephits. Some speculated inner planes: The Quasi-paraelemental planes: Plane of Crystal Plane of Spark Plane of Obsidian Plane of Clay Plane of Frost Plane of Fumes Plane of Pumice Plane of Silt This group of planes should presumably be Quasi- (positive and negative) forms of the paraelemental planes. Though the existence of these planes are not universally accepted truths there are a fair minority of scholars who supports the notion. There are also several planeswalkers who claim to have travelled on these planes. Still the reports of these "explorers" are somewhat inconsistent and could easily have described areas of of other well known inner planes. (The "Plane of Obsidian" could easily be a slightly fire-dominant area of the Plane of Mineral for example). Most regard the ideas as tall tales generated by the academica of Sigil in their endless pursuit of something new. The mysterious "central plane": The known plane can be viewed as forming an imaginary "sphere" if you array them after their familiarity with each other. This have led many to speculate that there must be something inside this "sphere". A central inner plane lying between positive and negative, fire and water etc. There have been many speculations on what this plane could possibly be. Some claim that it is the Plane of Shadow, a fairly well known demi-plane. This would of course mean that the Plane of Shadow is not a mere demi-plane but a true inner plane. Still it seems a bit too esoteric to be the grand center of the Inner Planes. The most novel idea must be the "Plane of Time". If the Positive Energy Plane represent "beginning" and the Negative Energy Plane represents "end" then the area between them must be occupied by the flow of time. This also meshes finely with the idea that the passing of time is the most fundamental of all natural forces. It is also notable that all the inner planes seems to be affected by time in an equally "normal" manner and can thus claim "familiarity" to this purpoted central plane. The reports on the Plane of Time itself are extremely sketchy. Many adherents to this theory excuses this by claiming that the Plane of Time is extremely hard to reach. Much harder than any known plane. A notion that has some merit. Gaining access to the antechamber of time itself would require something beyond the extraordinary. Also it doesn't help that all those who are believed to have been to this plane are now suffering from acute dementia. The most coherent thing that has been extracted from them are some ramblings about a "great whirlpool" or "spiral". Their guardian psychiatrists have all pleaded that one does not inquire as to what is at the center of this "whirlpool" or "spiral". Note: The Plane of Time theory has gained extra credibility as some psionically gifted persons seems able to manipulate time as though it was an element. Even collapse it into some kind of substance. Finally some believe that what is in the center of the Inner Planes is none other than the good old Prime Material Plane. This is supported by the fact that all elemental forces are clearly present on the Prime and naturally ocurring elemental vortexes are not uncommon. Still it seems odd that access to the inner planes from the Prime most commonly involves the transitional Ethereal Plane and also the Prime seems too different from the other inner planes with it's numerous crystal spheres suspended in the phlogiston. This idea is supported mostly on primes where the Elements play a strong role in religion and mythology. The denizens of the Inner Planes doesn't seem to fond of the notion. [ 10-02-2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Indemaijinj ] __________________ The Bleak Caballero<br /><br />Proud and original member (and secret admirer) of the Pro-Mazzy movement.

10-04-2003, 10:30 AM	#9
Raistlin Majere Ra Join Date: March 26, 2002 Location: Finland Age: 37 Posts: 2,323	im not too familiar with elemental lore, but i believe there are two elemental princes in each of the "classical" elemental planes, good and evil princes. for example, Ogremoch is the evil elemental prince of the plane of earth, whilst Sunnis is the good. Zaaman-Rul and Chan are both evil, i believe, but if im right there should be good aligned princes of those elements. ill see if i can get more info on this subject...if i can, ill get back to you ADD] a few corrections: Chan, apparently, isnt the evil air prince: Yan-C-Bin is. Cryonax is the prince, or atleast overlord, of the plance of Ice. Olhydra is the prince(ess) of the plane of Water. Crystalle is the overlord of minerals(salt and the like). thats all that were listed. im not too sure anymore if there are evil and good princes in all the elemental planes anymore, though... [ 10-04-2003, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Raistlin Majere ] __________________ If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst forth at once in the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One. "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds."

10-04-2003, 11:05 AM	#10
Link Jack Burton Join Date: May 15, 2001 Location: The Netherlands Age: 40 Posts: 5,888	Google search: voila! Cryonax, Prince of Evil Cold Creatures, is neutral evil. He is connected to the elemental planes of air and water, and draws power from the negative material plane. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Imix is the Prince of Evil Fire Creatures, notably efreeti and salamanders. This neutral evil is in conflict with Olhydra. He lives within the elemental plane of fire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ogremoch is neutral evil. The Prince of Evil Earth Creatures (xorn, umber hulks, khargra) lives on the elemental plane of earth. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Olhydra, again neutral evil, is the Princess of Evil Water Creatures (sea hags, water weirds, sahuagin). She lives on the elemental plane of water. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yan-C-Bin, Prince of Evil Aerial Creatures (cloud giants, invisible stalkers, wind walkers), is neutral evil. He exists on the elemental plane of air. ~~~~~~~~ For the good version I could not find anything useful, but this site said something about Elemental Kings and Queens: http://www.cmc.net/~rtaylor/greyhawk/gods/lists/ __________________ Rowing is not a sport, it's a way of life Goal: Beijing 2008

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
So if there are 6 Daedra princes....	johnny	Miscellaneous Games (RPG or not)	4	08-15-2006 05:16 AM
Elemental tomes?	Ziggy	Wizards & Warriors Forum	4	02-01-2002 11:51 AM
Elemental Lich	Guk73	Baldurs Gate II: Shadows of Amn & Throne of Bhaal	3	01-25-2002 08:57 AM
AD&D Question: Deities vs ArchDevils vs Demon Princes	Memnoch	General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005)	9	01-08-2002 04:19 AM
Which is best elemental	Bishop	Icewind Dale \| Heart of Winter \| Icewind Dale II Forum	3	02-08-2001 12:43 AM

10-02-2003, 09:46 AM	#1
ecob16 Dungeon Master Join Date: August 14, 2001 Location: malawi Posts: 51	hey there does anyone know the name and (if possible) stats of all the elemental princes (not just the ones from throne of bhaal) thanx loads

10-02-2003, 12:51 PM	#2
Morgeruat Jack Burton Join Date: October 16, 2001 Location: PA Age: 45 Posts: 5,421	I can look it up when I get home, there are 5 Elemental Princes (Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Ice - Ice is technically a paraelemental, but the lord is powerful enough to be considered with the traditional four) and most of them have offspring that are working to depose them.

10-02-2003, 03:27 PM	#4
Dron_Cah Horus - Egyptian Sky God Join Date: March 2, 2003 Location: Kentucky Age: 39 Posts: 2,637	What are these "elemental princes"?

10-03-2003, 06:30 AM	#7
ecob16 Dungeon Master Join Date: August 14, 2001 Location: malawi Posts: 51	thanx alot you guys are so knowledgable, also hows about entemoch and ogremoch from one of the drizzt books?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)