20,000+ dead in Iran after earthquake

[Chewbacca]

Such a calamity deserves its own thread.

I promote giving to the Red Cross or its equivalent in your area. Alot of people are hurting and in need of aid.

Link
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International aid is pouring into Iran to help victims of a powerful earthquake that flattened the ancient city of Bam on Friday, killing an estimated 20,000 people and injuring 30,000 others.
The first American aid shipment to Iran arrived early Sunday aboard two U.S. military transport planes that landed in the city of Kerman, about 200 kilometers from Bam.

Four other such flights are planned, and the United States is also sending medical and disaster-coordination teams and search-and-rescue experts to the earthquake zone.

Associated Press reports a second American flight also arrived in Kerman province in southeastern Iran. Iran's official IRNA news agency says 25 countries are taking part in an aid airlift, and 45 foreign planes have arrived already.

Iran's interior minister, Abdolvahed Mousavi Lari, says 15,000 bodies have already been buried, and he expects the final death toll to pass 20,000. Reporters at the scene in Bam say many bodies are being buried in mass graves.

The centuries-old mud-brick citadel in Bam was one of Iran's best-known tourist attractions, but there are only incomplete reports about how many foreigners were caught by the earthquake. U.S. officials say one American tourist was killed and another was injured.

Local and international rescue teams are digging through the rubble of homes collapsed by the earthquake, which struck before dawn on Friday, while many people were asleep. No more than 200 people have been reported to have been found alive since Saturday, and there are growing concerns that time is running out for anyone who may still be alive beneath the wreckage.

Rescue efforts are being hampered by freezing overnight temperatures, as well as a lack of power, water and communications. Relief workers have set up tents, but thousands of homeless people still are sleeping outdoors. Reporters in Bam for Reuters say there has been some looting of relief supplies by gangs of young men armed with pistols.

Traffic gridlock is also a problem. Many people are trying to flee the region as aftershocks spread fear, while others have been trying to reach Bam to help in rescue efforts or search for family and friends.
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[ 12-28-2003, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

I agree with you Chewie about giving to the Red Cross and helping those unfortunate people out.

Just as I feel it important to remember who we are helping and what their collective desires are for us and our children are....as represented by their leaders.

[Chewbacca]

Very insightful article about Iran:

US-Iran Relations since 9-11: A Monologue of Civilizations


*SNIP*

September 11, 2001 is seared into the minds of many Americans as 911. If you mention this number to anyone in the US they will think of the World Trade Towers and the Pentagon attacks, and the 3,000 persons who were murdered that day. If one mentions the number 444 to many Americans, they will immediately think of the hostages from the US Embassy held by Iran for 444 days. For many Americans the first things that come to mind when one mentions Iran are: the hostage crisis, the bombing of the marine barracks and the embassy in Lebanon in the early 1980s, support for Hezbollah and other "terrorist" groups, and mullahs in black turbans leading demonstrators yelling "Marg bar Amrika" (Death to America). Many Americans do not have good feelings about Iran (2). The press has not helped. The Congress, with its many laws and regulations, and resolutions, has hardened certain perspectives.(3). The lobbyists have pressured the President and Capitol Hill to keep the pressure on Iran. The voices in Iran that seem to get through the most are those of the hardliners who rant against the US at almost any opportunity. Not many Americans think of the many people who signed the sympathy books in Tehran after 9-11, or that reformist leaders in Iran made statements of sympathy toward the US. Even some of the hardliners condemned the 9-11 attacks. Many in the US may also be unaware of the growing pro-Americanism amongst the youth in Iran.

Just heard that our team from Virginia was turned back as they no longer need rescue experts. Instead they are calling for medical workers and assistance. looks like they are giving up on finding any more survivors 25,000+ dead...what a shame......hard to imagine that many casualties.

Your article says that Americans don't have a good feeling towards Iran....and that the press doesn't help....dragging burning effigies of american presidents and flags through the streets doesn't either, nor does murdering several embassy guards or taking hostages or marches in the street carrying banners saying Death to America, harboring terrorists who have fled western justice...

There are good people there....just some very bad ones running things.
I will also note, that it is hard to be forgiving if you know people who are killed just for being someplace doing their job. There is evidence that the younger generations of Iranians are less blood thirsty than the current ruling regime....so there may be hope for the future.

[ 12-29-2003, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Chewbacca]

I wonder if it is known exactly the myriad of reasons (besides fundamentalist Islamic tendencies) for the Iranian hate and mistrust of the U.S. Neither side, it seems, is blameless. Both sides have logs in their own eyes even as they try to get specks out of each others.

Whomever makes the first move towards peace and cooperation, maybe it should be done with and optimistic, forward looking perspective rather than by clinging to grudges of the past.

I do wonder as well when will we be able to discuss the tough, compassionate work of helping Iranian victims of a terrible disaster without the need to mention they are our "enemies"?

Here is another snippet from the lengthy article I linked earlier ( in case it was not all read):

Iranian perceptions of the US: Iranians still hold the US responsible for the coup against PM Mossadegh in 1953 that reinstalled into power a shah that many of them did not like - and a shah who was brutal and, in their views, un-Islamic. There is a great deal of resentment still stewing in Iran on this issue. This history is important in Iran, but mostly for the older generation of former revolutionaries and hardliners. Iranians also resent the sanctions imposed on them, and the strong attempts by the US to isolate them from the world. They also have a sense that the US robbed them of wealth and income, not only from the sanctions, but also by freezing Iranian assets - especially the assets of the former shah. They are astonished that the US has expanded its own laws, like ILSA and others, to Iranian soil, and that Iran has lost its sovereign immunity in the courts of the US - as exemplified in the Flato case. Many Iranians also see plots by the US behind many of their problems, although many of the youth seem to be getting beyond that. Even so, the US Congress approved $20 million not long ago to engage in covert activities to either change the Iranian leadership, or to change the way Iran looked at the world. This was done in an extraordinarily public manner. It also fed the resentments and conspiracy theories in Iran. The Iranian Maglis (parliament) soon after that allocated $20 million to fight these covert activities. The recent crash of a US spy drone in Iran did not help matters. Many Iranians also resent the fact that the US successfully blocked loans and other assistance from international organizations like the World Bank and the IMF until just recently, and that the US has been trying to block Iran's membership in the WTO. They see some of the attempts by PM Khatami to bring Iran back into the international system of trade and finance as being blocked by the US. (PM Rafsanjani started the opening up process after he was elected Prime Minister. He also had a difficult time with the US. ) The Iran-Libya Sanctions Act (ILSA) is an example they often present. However, ILSA has proven to be something of a paper tiger. The sanctions that it states will be imposed on non-US companies that invest more than $20 million in Iran have been rarely imposed. Its intended purpose was to help cut off outside financial and other help to Iran to redevelop its oil, gas and other industries. The underlying purpose was also to cut off funding and economic development that Iran could use to export its revolution, and to engage in terrorist activities. However, there is a part of ILSA that states that the sanctions can be waved for national security purposes. That seemed to be vague enough for Petronas, Total and others to be immune from such sanctions. The increasingly warm relations between the EU, Russia, China, and others with Iran seem to be helping Iran go around many of the extraterritorial sanctions and laws imposed by the US. Such unilateral sanctions cannot work without some cooperation from third parties. Such cooperation seems to have been weakening over time. The recent spate of EU investments in Iran in various sectors of the Iranian economy points further to this fact. There are some nonproliferation laws in the US as they apply to Iran. In these cases sanctions are almost always applied. This is likely because of the nature of the potential threats to the US and its interests that such investments or exports to Iran may help produce. Some Chinese companies were recently sanctioned by the US. But the US has been wary to sanction Russian companies, even though Russia is helping Iran build the nuclear power plant in Bushehr, and has recently agreed to help them build six other nuclear plants. Sometimes US relations with the countries where these firms reside trump the application of these extraterritorial laws and regulations. The Iranians see the US as trying to interfere in Iran's relations with many other countries. Iran would like to be a regional power in Central Asia, Northwest Asia and the Gulf. They see US power slowly encircling them in, and they resent and fear it. They are angry over US efforts to block pipelines from the Central Asian states through Iran to ports and outlets in the Gulf and on to Pakistan and India and beyond. They also see the US trying to interfere in its relations with the EU (without much success), Russia, China, India, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, and the many other countries that Iran has developed diplomatic and other relations with since 1979 - and especially since the election of PM Khatami in 1997. Nevertheless, Iran has more diplomatic posts now than it did during the time of the Shah. Its relations with the EU and other US allies seem to be growing and warming-as its relations with the US seem to get worse and worse. Containment is a cup half empty. Nevertheless, many in Iran resent US hegemony in the region, US power worldwide, and US power targeting them. Many of the more right wing elements in Iran think of the US as a monolith of western culture, which they, in turn, consider to be immoral and anti-Islamic. Many dislike the US for its seemingly unquestioning support for Israel. This is especially so during these most trying and brutal times. There are holdover resentments about the US support for Iraq during the miserable 8-years war, in which Iran lost hundreds of thousands of people. During the war, its economy collapse, and its cities and all-important oil industry got severely damaged. The Iranian economy and society were seared by the war. Many Iranians also hold resentments toward the US for the downing of the Iranian airliner by the Vincennes. They were livid when they heard the commanding officer of the Vincennes was later promoted. The fact that the US apologized to Iran, and compensated the families of the victims, does not seem to be enough to assuage some of the resentments and pain associated with this tragedy. The Iranians were fairly quiet and acquiescent during the Gulf War of 1991, when Iraq was invaded by the US. Yet it seems to many of them that the US did not reward them for their neutrality. The Iranians also resent the US for not putting some Iranian opposition groups on the US terrorist lists. They are angry at the US for putting the "freedom fighters" (from their perspective) of Hezbollah in Lebanon, and Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Palestine on those lists. They are angered by the US interference in their development of nuclear power, missile programs and defense programs to defend their country in a region that is extremely dangerous and is nuclear. India, Pakistan and Israel are all nuclear powers. Many Iranians fault the US for interfering time and time again in its defense affairs. It is clear from the data, that Iran has had a very strong increase in defense expenditures since 1996. They have also been developing missile systems with the help of North Korea and others. The US sees these developments as a significant threat. Many Iranians see this as the right of any sovereign state to defend itself. Some Iranians also mention that Israel is a nuclear power, but the US does not sanction them. They also find it curious how the sanctions imposed on Pakistan and India were taken off once it was clear that these two countries would help the US with the war on terrorism. More than likely the Iranians asked for a similar reaction from the US when discussions were going on about what Iran might contribute to the Afghan war. Given the complexities of the legislative environment on Iran in the US, it would take extreme measures to significantly relax the sanctions against them. Also, there are not the long-term hardened resentments against the Pakistanis of the Indians that there are against the Iranians in the US. India and Pakistan are also not considered threats to Israel, like Iran is. Iran got very little from the US, it seems, for the modicum of help it gave in the Afghan campaign of 2001-2002. Many Iranians are also upset at what they see as US interference in many parts of the Islamic world, a world that some in Iran perceive to be within their spheres of influence. Many of the hardliners consider the US to be a crusading power and inherently anti-Islamic. Failures of the revolution, and there are many, are often blamed on the US and Israel, especially by the hardliners. One can see that, for them, ideology and "Islamism" trump realpolitik. The reformers, as weak as they are, seem to be more progressive on this. Many of the youth seem thoroughly fed up with the views of their leaders, and do not seem to support the overwhelming "Islamization" that imbues today's Iran. It also seems that they would also like to see more jobs, better jobs, more housing, better housing, and more freedoms, rather than see Iran spending more money on external agendas (5)..

I was going to do a reply but it was really OT so Ill just PM it to ya. All I can say is...they have asked "foreign" volunteers to go home....please just send money food and equipment instead.

[Djinn Raffo]

A tragedy. So many dead.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by MagiK: I was going to do a reply but it was really OT so Ill just PM it to ya. All I can say is...they have asked "foreign" volunteers to go home....please just send money food and equipment instead.

And your source for this information about foreign volunteers being asked to leave is? I have done several searches on several search engines and haven't found any mention of this. I do know that search and rescue personel were told they were not needed anymore as they do not anticipate them being able to arrive in time to help find survivors.

As for your PM, I'm not even going to diginfy it with a response.

I did find this (and others) dated today and yesterday:

Link

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Iran welcomes world's help to dig out

By Ali Akbar Dareini
The Associated Press


BAM, Iran — Relatives and rescuers used everything from bare hands to bulldozers yesterday to retrieve victims of the earthquake that crumbled vast swaths of Bam's mud-brick buildings into powder and frost-chilled rubble, killing thousands of people.

The destruction was so all-encompassing that a reliable death toll in the city of 80,000 was still unavailable. Most people were asleep when the earthquake, which the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) upgraded yesterday to magnitude 6.6, struck at 5:28 a.m. Friday.

The Interior Ministry estimated the death toll at 20,000, but officials in the region said it could be double that number.

"An unbelievable human disaster has occurred," said Akbar Alavi, the governor of Kerman, the provincial capital. "As more bodies are pulled out, we fear that the death toll may reach as high as 40,000."

Other officials said the number of dead would be lower. "The figures are not correct; no precise statistics on the number of casualties are available yet, but it seems that number of the victims is less," Deputy Gov. Mohammad Farshad said. The Interior Ministry estimated the number of injured at 30,000.

One American was killed and another injured in the quake. They were in Bam to visit the city's 2,000-year-old citadel, which was all but destroyed. The injured American was hospitalized in Tehran, State Department spokesman Lou Fintor said. The Americans' names were not released.

Bam, in southeastern Iran about 630 miles from Tehran, sustained such extreme damage because most buildings are made of unreinforced mud brick and the quake was centered about 10 miles outside the city, said Harley Benz, a USGS seismologist.

"The communities in this part of Iran are really not resilient to earthquakes," said Benz, head of the National Earthquake Information Center in Golden, Colo. "It's very sad and unfortunate."

Iran opened its airspace to all planes carrying emergency supplies and waived visa requirements for foreign relief personnel.


Governments and relief organizations mobilized around the globe, with rescue workers, search dogs and supplies arriving from a long list of countries.

The United States, which has had no diplomatic relations with Iran since 1979, will send 150,000 pounds of medical supplies and dispatch about 200 search-and-rescue and medical experts from Fairfax County, Va.; Los Angeles; and Boston, U.S. officials said.

"We greatly welcome any assistance from the United States. We welcome assistance from all countries except Israel," said Alavi, the Kerman governor.

International rescue teams began arriving with search dogs and detection equipment. One dog team dug out 20 survivors, an Iranian news agency said.

The use of dogs, which are considered unclean by most Muslims, was a sticking point in rescue efforts in a 1990 earthquake that struck northwestern Iran, killing about 50,000 people.

Searchers carried the injured in their arms, on stretchers and in the backs of trucks, seeking help outside Bam's ruined hospitals or at the airport while awaiting evacuation to Kerman, about 120 miles away, or other cities.

A provincial government official, Saeed Iranmanesh, told The Associated Press that 3,000 bodies have been recovered and buried, and more than 9,000 injured were sent to hospitals throughout the country.

About 150 people, including an infant, were pulled alive from the rubble, Revolutionary Guards officer Masoud Amiri said. The baby was buried more than 24 hours but was listed in stable condition at a hospital, he said.

In one neighborhood, a gray-bearded man in his 50s watched with resignation as four men dug with bare hands and a single shovel.

What once was his home was a flattened pile of rubble and dust. He pointed to where the bedrooms should have been, seemingly resigned that none of his three teenage children or his wife would be found alive.

He fainted as he noticed a slender hand protruding from a red pajama sleeve in the debris.

Behind him, the body of a girl in her teens was excavated and quickly covered with a blanket. Then the bodies of his sons and a woman in her 40s were found.

In another neighborhood, a man interrupted Interior Minister Abdolvahed Mousavi Lari as he spoke to reporters.

"My father is under the rubble," the man said, tears streaming. "I've been asking for help since yesterday, but nobody has come to help me. Please help me. I want my father alive."

Lari tried to calm the man and asked an aide to help him.

"There is not a standing building in the city. Bam has turned into a wasteland," Lari said.

The earthquake also collapsed the walls of the local prison, allowing all 800 inmates to escape, guard Vahid Masoumpour said.

[ 12-29-2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

My source was the captain of the team that they sent home...based in Fairfax Virginia (about an hours drive from here) he was on TV this evening saying it was the first time his team has ever had their aid declined.

Actually he was my second source, the first source was in the Washingtonpost.com article about it today.

Sorry I didn't tag it for ya, thought it would be common knowledge by now.


Edit: I have no reason to make that kind of thing up, sheesh it would be so easy to disprove when the american team landed on sight and was on national TV.....unfortunately that won't happen...because as I said...the Ayahtola issued a statement saying they did not need "foreign" volunteers, that they had quite enough already and that they had so many they were having a problem organizing them...(which is one thing the Team from Virginia would have been able to provide) they don't need our volunteers, just money, and supplys...

[ 12-29-2003, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Today on ABC Radio News WMAL AM 630 Radio on the way home I heard that Iranian Leaders have said no to our volunteers, yes to our money and equipment and have said not to expect any changes in our relations.

Not that I was expecting any...but isn't a bit low class to say that?