[Jaradu]

Originally Posted by Yorick Nah mate, that's apples and oranges. I think Cerek's point is a fair one. EVOLUTION implies a superiority and upward momentum for more complex species. Survival of the fittest and all that.

That's my point, our ancestors didn't survive. Humans and primates are all that remain from the humanoid, bi-pedal branch of the tree of evolution our ancestors forged.

Well if the fittest survive and evolve, why do the weaker ones not evolve?

It's not that they didn't evolve. Everything's always mutating/adapting, the question is, are the mutations advantageous or detrimental in the dog-eat-dog natural world?

And why would humans evolve weaker babies? An ape baby is far more sturdy and independent than the fragile human one.

Well, it's hardly survival of the fittest from day one. Humans require a longer period of infanthood 'helplessness' than other animals in order to hone the advanced thought and cognitive processes that separate us from other species. And it's not like we can't afford to sacrifice strength for this ability when the species has evolved to protect the young.

And how about the eye that needs all it's components to work?

We know a lot about the eye. In fact, we don't even have to look at fossils to see how the eye evolved, the different stages exist in animals today where the eye simply wasn't required to advance any further.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fOtP7HEuDYA
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QM-LcQZHg1M

I still have fundamental problems with new species mutations, when gene locks prevent us breeding even mule that reproduces (A mule is the result of a donkey and an ass), let alone having a tiger and dog breed.

Sorry, I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make here. If you're saying a tiger and a dog shouldn't be able to breed, then yes, you'd be quite right, they can't.

And what about regressive genes etc. Where deviations from the intended gene pattern reproduce at much lower rates. Dwarfs for example, reproduce at a much lower rate than normal humans. Everything about dna/genes etc seems to try and correct itself, rather than allow mutations to evolve.

The reason the world isn't teeming with dwarfs is because of recessive and dominant genes. If it was advantageous to be a dwarf in the natural world, you'd probably see a few more.

Plus, no reproducible mutation has ever been recorded in human history.

Mutation is like radioactive decay. It's more or less random. That's like saying that ten years ago the winning lottery numbers were so and so, yet since then those exact numbers have never been repeated. Oh well, it still happened.

And there are cases of reproducible mutations, I believe in the areas of fruit flies, mice, and viruses.

So it's all just theory.

In science, "theory" is the highest level of truth you can assign something, unlike the everyday bastardisation of the word which just means "idea" or "guess".

Plus it still has not been explained to me how an ape can evolve a human nose that allows it to swim, and not drown, when attempting to engage in the activity it would use the new nose for, would kill it.

Hunting fish in a river? Those who can submerge themselves for longer - or even those who can submerge themselves at all - would end up with more fish.

I cannot believe that if humans keep jumping off cliffs, one day we'll develop wings. It defies logic, and yet that is what supposedly happened with ape's noses, backs (which can't support bipedalism) etc.

If humans ever did develop wings, you're right, it wouldn't happen "one day". With all major evolutionary steps, we're talking millions of years. And it wouldn't happen by jumping off cliffs, either, but thanks for the strawman nonetheless. Wanting to fly doesn't mean you will mutate to fly. Giraffes weren't jumping up, trying to reach higher leaves, then lo and behold, their kids had longer necks.

There are several possible explanations for how/why the wing evolved.

- Wings evolved from arms used to capture small prey.
- Wings evolved because bipedal animals were leaping into the air; large wings assisted leaping.
- Wings evolved from gliding ancestors who began to flap their gliding structures in order to produce thrust.

That's the way, here's the how.

I have too much doubt in evolution theory to accept it.

Ditto with the talking snake, dude.