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Yorick · 10-08-2001, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk:
"6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

If life is positive or good, then God, the author of life is good. If creating is a positive, good act, then God is good. If maintaining all existence by will alone is a positive and goog act then God is good. Witholding or stopping these actions reverts all back to how it was/is without God. Thus at worst the creator is neutral, as all is in effect because of his will. The act of giving generously is considered one of love. God has given life, the planet and free will. I'd say these are acts of love.
The act of forgivness entails some of the strongest acts of love one can achieve.

God forgives daily, every moment.

If dying in anothers place is considered the ultimate act of love and sacrifice, the God, as Jesus, has to be lauded with the kudos for performing the ultimate act of love and sacrifice.

All of this is in the Bible Dramnek. If I create music I can destroy or refine it. Does that make me evil? No. It makes me an artist.

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).
If you call healing a foreign womans daughter racism, then I too am a proud racist. So too is Mother Theresa. If this is the only evidence it is pretty flimsy. At another juncture Jesus hung out with a Samaritan woman whom Jews normally didn't associate with. Did you try looking at the passage you quoted here Dramnek? He tested her faith. He gave the predictable answer a Jew would be expected to give, but she persisted with him. Argued the point, and he rewarded that. As Christians we can take heart that we can do the same. We pray, God says no. We argue the point, persist, show evidence of faith.

He then healed the womans daughter as she asked.

11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?

I do not believe the Bible satisfactoraly speaks of a place of eternal suffering, so this argument is invalid. I have read and reread the applicable verses, and together with an understanding of the character of God, and an understanding that without God nothing exists, and that Jesus offers life eternal - an eternity without God is nonexistance, not eternal "unlife" or eternal "substandard life". "The wages of sin are death." In revelation those who were not in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire. "This is the second death" it says.

Go read it for yourself Dramnek instead of spouting shonkily written arguments against a book that is the source (not sauce) of much wisdom, joy and insight to millions.
I am late, I will respond to the other points later.[/QUOTE]

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

10-08-2001, 07:14 PM	#107
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 52 Posts: 9,246	Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: "6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times). If life is positive or good, then God, the author of life is good. If creating is a positive, good act, then God is good. If maintaining all existence by will alone is a positive and goog act then God is good. Witholding or stopping these actions reverts all back to how it was/is without God. Thus at worst the creator is neutral, as all is in effect because of his will. The act of giving generously is considered one of love. God has given life, the planet and free will. I'd say these are acts of love. The act of forgivness entails some of the strongest acts of love one can achieve. God forgives daily, every moment. If dying in anothers place is considered the ultimate act of love and sacrifice, the God, as Jesus, has to be lauded with the kudos for performing the ultimate act of love and sacrifice. All of this is in the Bible Dramnek. If I create music I can destroy or refine it. Does that make me evil? No. It makes me an artist. 7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29). If you call healing a foreign womans daughter racism, then I too am a proud racist. So too is Mother Theresa. If this is the only evidence it is pretty flimsy. At another juncture Jesus hung out with a Samaritan woman whom Jews normally didn't associate with. Did you try looking at the passage you quoted here Dramnek? He tested her faith. He gave the predictable answer a Jew would be expected to give, but she persisted with him. Argued the point, and he rewarded that. As Christians we can take heart that we can do the same. We pray, God says no. We argue the point, persist, show evidence of faith. He then healed the womans daughter as she asked. 11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way? I do not believe the Bible satisfactoraly speaks of a place of eternal suffering, so this argument is invalid. I have read and reread the applicable verses, and together with an understanding of the character of God, and an understanding that without God nothing exists, and that Jesus offers life eternal - an eternity without God is nonexistance, not eternal "unlife" or eternal "substandard life". "The wages of sin are death." In revelation those who were not in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire. "This is the second death" it says. Go read it for yourself Dramnek instead of spouting shonkily written arguments against a book that is the source (not sauce) of much wisdom, joy and insight to millions. I am late, I will respond to the other points later.[/QUOTE] ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!