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Legolas · 11-14-2004, 07:29 AM

A few remarks on that cleric/wizard/shadow dancer build.

Raising Spellcraft to 35 instead of 34 gives you +1 to your saves vs spells (and raising it to 40 gives another +1).
Raising Tumble to 40 increases your AC bonus to +8 instead of +4 as a maximum.
However, you are not after a high AC in this build. Both the Tumble and Dexterity bonusses do not do much for the character, as you do not intend to be involved in any combat.
And if you are, you want to be hit to get the enemy to suffer as much damage from Elemental Shield and the Acid Sheath as possible before their duration runs out. Constitution for high hitpoints is more valuable here.

True Sight can see through Hide in Shadows. So that's no protection there, although it does work against Invisibility Purge and See Invisibility.

By splitting up your casting ability over two different classes using two different attributes, you are going to make your spell save DCs lower than they need to be. Also, your spells are much easier to dispel, and your spell penetration ability will suffer. Essentially this means that you'll not be as magic effective as pureclass characters.

When hiding, to cast a spell, you'll need to step out of stealth mode. Because you do have a low AC compared to most other classes (and most other classes have a better base attack), this leaves you vulnerable to attack. Concentration helps prevent spell disruption, as do damage reduction spells. Ideally though, you'd set the character build up to have the Automatic Quicken feats. This allows you to fire your disabling spells before the opponent has time to react.

Discipline is sorely lacking. If you let yourself be surprised, melee characters will have no trouble bringing you down. The lack of Quickened spells here means you'll have a hard time doing anything to stop them.

Your hiding skills of 40-ish will be respectable, but most characters investing in spot or listen will have little trouble finding you thi way. On the bright side, you have magical invisibility working for you as well.

Your own reflex and fortitude saves are going to be low, leaving the character vulnerable to many area of effect spells and traps.

Finally, lacking Search skillpoints, you will have a hard time knowing when to disarm traps using your magic.

High level, high SR monks may be a problem. However, Stoneskin + Acid Sheath can take care of them quite nicely. Use Shadow Shield to protect against a quivering palm and you're set.
A far greater threat is posed by other clerics (who can be quite well protected from immobilisation magics and have Truesight), other Wizards (who can do all the immobilisation and swift slaying you can dish out, and also carry True Sight), Sorcerers (who will easily counter all your magics, and, yes, also have TS to see through your hiding), and especially Rogues.

Of course, Devestating Critical characters with their high Strengh and Bigby resistance might get fortunate as well. Most of those will have a hard time catching you however.

So while it is potentially powerful, the class isn't quite yet optimized. Even with the neccesary changes, it maintains sufficient weaknesses to allow it to be defeated by a respectable range of decently built characters provided they are intelligently played.

11-14-2004, 07:29 AM	#7
Legolas Jack Burton Join Date: March 31, 2001 Location: The zephyr lands beneath the brine. Age: 39 Posts: 5,459	A few remarks on that cleric/wizard/shadow dancer build. Raising Spellcraft to 35 instead of 34 gives you +1 to your saves vs spells (and raising it to 40 gives another +1). Raising Tumble to 40 increases your AC bonus to +8 instead of +4 as a maximum. However, you are not after a high AC in this build. Both the Tumble and Dexterity bonusses do not do much for the character, as you do not intend to be involved in any combat. And if you are, you want to be hit to get the enemy to suffer as much damage from Elemental Shield and the Acid Sheath as possible before their duration runs out. Constitution for high hitpoints is more valuable here. True Sight can see through Hide in Shadows. So that's no protection there, although it does work against Invisibility Purge and See Invisibility. By splitting up your casting ability over two different classes using two different attributes, you are going to make your spell save DCs lower than they need to be. Also, your spells are much easier to dispel, and your spell penetration ability will suffer. Essentially this means that you'll not be as magic effective as pureclass characters. When hiding, to cast a spell, you'll need to step out of stealth mode. Because you do have a low AC compared to most other classes (and most other classes have a better base attack), this leaves you vulnerable to attack. Concentration helps prevent spell disruption, as do damage reduction spells. Ideally though, you'd set the character build up to have the Automatic Quicken feats. This allows you to fire your disabling spells before the opponent has time to react. Discipline is sorely lacking. If you let yourself be surprised, melee characters will have no trouble bringing you down. The lack of Quickened spells here means you'll have a hard time doing anything to stop them. Your hiding skills of 40-ish will be respectable, but most characters investing in spot or listen will have little trouble finding you thi way. On the bright side, you have magical invisibility working for you as well. Your own reflex and fortitude saves are going to be low, leaving the character vulnerable to many area of effect spells and traps. Finally, lacking Search skillpoints, you will have a hard time knowing when to disarm traps using your magic. High level, high SR monks may be a problem. However, Stoneskin + Acid Sheath can take care of them quite nicely. Use Shadow Shield to protect against a quivering palm and you're set. A far greater threat is posed by other clerics (who can be quite well protected from immobilisation magics and have Truesight), other Wizards (who can do all the immobilisation and swift slaying you can dish out, and also carry True Sight), Sorcerers (who will easily counter all your magics, and, yes, also have TS to see through your hiding), and especially Rogues. Of course, Devestating Critical characters with their high Strengh and Bigby resistance might get fortunate as well. Most of those will have a hard time catching you however. So while it is potentially powerful, the class isn't quite yet optimized. Even with the neccesary changes, it maintains sufficient weaknesses to allow it to be defeated by a respectable range of decently built characters provided they are intelligently played.