Ironworks Gaming Forum - View Single Post - Doors slam shut across Europe as immigration controls tightened

Zaleukos · 05-24-2006, 04:59 AM

I'm not all that happy with tighter immigration control. The process is arbitrary and expensive (at least in my country, Sweden). The issues we should deal with here are IMHO twofold and not quite whats in that article:

Employment: Make it easier to employ immigrants (and others) by reducing the cost and risk for employers. After taxes and "social fees" an employee gets to keep less than 40% of what the employer paid. It's also way too hard to fire people. This makes companies reluctant to employ, and if they employ they go for safe bets, ie 30yo white males. In the case of immigrants we should also give them work permits right away, even before their right to stay indefinitely is validated. If someone wants to work rather than live on handouts, why not let them?

Make the visa/asylum process faster and more transparent: It can take 3-5 years before the incompetent migrations board determines if you are allowed to stay or not, which causes uncertainty and unnecessary suffering. I've personally seen a routine family reunion case (my Singaporean gf) drag out so long that her initial 2-year permit expired, a case where the actual "investigation" took a whopping 30 minutes once these idiots got around to conducting an interview. This is piled up incompetence, nothing else. Even if you are to be kicked out it is better to be told that early rather than getting half settled before being pulled and kicked out again.

Basically I belong to the minority that believes we should make it easier to enter the country to work, but be less generous in welfare handouts. Europe largely lacks a growing service sector to soak these people up, mainly due to business and labour regulations. Employment and interaction with the natives is key to integration, bue Europe hasnt gotten close to seeing these dynamics at work since it usually takes a generation or two for "immigrants" (loosely used here as you arent an immigrant if you were born in the country) to integrate. How many descendants of Italian/Irish/German/Polish Americans conssider themselves anything but Americans first today? Our experience of large scale immigration is much shorter than the American one.

My opinion is however strongly opposed both by unions, their social democratic allies, traditional conservatives, and the traditional populist sentiment. It's not like we can be much tougher on immigration than we are already without damaging the economy anyway. The population is aging and we are running low on tax payers. We only (and barely) let in refugees and asylum seekers (as defined by international conventions which make a fairly strict interpretation of these cathegories) and almost no labour immigration. This has "moral" reasons but have resulted in our immigrants being the most difficult to get into the labour market, amplifying the problems...

05-24-2006, 04:59 AM	#5
Zaleukos The Magister Join Date: September 29, 2003 Location: Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 146	I'm not all that happy with tighter immigration control. The process is arbitrary and expensive (at least in my country, Sweden). The issues we should deal with here are IMHO twofold and not quite whats in that article: Employment: Make it easier to employ immigrants (and others) by reducing the cost and risk for employers. After taxes and "social fees" an employee gets to keep less than 40% of what the employer paid. It's also way too hard to fire people. This makes companies reluctant to employ, and if they employ they go for safe bets, ie 30yo white males. In the case of immigrants we should also give them work permits right away, even before their right to stay indefinitely is validated. If someone wants to work rather than live on handouts, why not let them? Make the visa/asylum process faster and more transparent: It can take 3-5 years before the incompetent migrations board determines if you are allowed to stay or not, which causes uncertainty and unnecessary suffering. I've personally seen a routine family reunion case (my Singaporean gf) drag out so long that her initial 2-year permit expired, a case where the actual "investigation" took a whopping 30 minutes once these idiots got around to conducting an interview. This is piled up incompetence, nothing else. Even if you are to be kicked out it is better to be told that early rather than getting half settled before being pulled and kicked out again. Basically I belong to the minority that believes we should make it easier to enter the country to work, but be less generous in welfare handouts. Europe largely lacks a growing service sector to soak these people up, mainly due to business and labour regulations. Employment and interaction with the natives is key to integration, bue Europe hasnt gotten close to seeing these dynamics at work since it usually takes a generation or two for "immigrants" (loosely used here as you arent an immigrant if you were born in the country) to integrate. How many descendants of Italian/Irish/German/Polish Americans conssider themselves anything but Americans first today? Our experience of large scale immigration is much shorter than the American one. My opinion is however strongly opposed both by unions, their social democratic allies, traditional conservatives, and the traditional populist sentiment. It's not like we can be much tougher on immigration than we are already without damaging the economy anyway. The population is aging and we are running low on tax payers. We only (and barely) let in refugees and asylum seekers (as defined by international conventions which make a fairly strict interpretation of these cathegories) and almost no labour immigration. This has "moral" reasons but have resulted in our immigrants being the most difficult to get into the labour market, amplifying the problems...