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NobleNick · 10-11-2004, 10:51 PM

Calagari,

I have a level 5 fighter/cleric for the lead man. He has plate + 1 and a weapon + 1. The other 2 fighters - rangers are similarily equipped but have weapons + 2 all this was found loot. The sheer amount of wights overwhelm my party. Could this be because I have HOW installed that they are more difficult to kill?

Here, I think, is part of your problem. (And it is not HoW.) Now don't take this personally; but IMHO your front line needs help. Did I read that correctly, that you have two rangers and a Fighter/Cleric? And you have no Fighter (No, I mean a REAL Fighter, who has CON=18 and is getting 14 HP per level, and who can stack Proficiency Points more than 2 high in a weapon.); nor a Pally (although a Pally, good later in the game, is not much more help than a Ranger at this stage).

(If you DO have a dual class or straight class Fighter, with Proficiency Points stacked at least 3 high in a close-in weapon, then please ignore all the ranting I am about to do.)

I have a suggestion or two on how to beat this fight with your party as is; but first let me suggest that if you have 2 Rangers ditch at least one of them for a DUAL CLASS (DC) Fighter/Cleric, a DUAL CLASS Fighter/Mage, a DUAL CLASS Fighter/Druid, or, at the very least, a straight class Fighter. Notice that I did not say Multiclass: Multiclass Fighters cannot stack PP more than 2 high. You are taking this party into HoW? Then I highly recommend a DC Fighter[X]/Cleric, where X is 9, 12 or even 13; DEX=STR=CON=WIS=18; and you stack ALL you PP into EXACTLY ONE ranged and ONE close-in weapon. Also, your Fighter/Cleric and other warriors have DEX=18, right? Did you know that DEX has a tremendous effect on Armor Class (AC)? Yup. IIRC, a DEX of 18 gives you an AC bonus of 4.

This is a tough fight at the beginning, as was said, because of the sheer number of Wights. In my treks, I've had to reload this battle once or maybe twice, myself. (Now don't say, "Duh!" at the following.) The key to victory for your lightly clad party is quick kills. The longer you let Wights hang around, the more damage they dish out. Your problem is that even one excellent Fighter would be hacking away for an hour getting rid of This many Wights; and (if I read you correctly) instead of two or three rock-hard warriors, you've got NOBODY with the deep Fighter skills needed to dispatch this crowd quickly. So, since you don't have the Fighter power to do it all, I hope you brought a Mage with access to Evocation spells

There is no one "magic bullet" that will get you through (that I know of). Here are a few tips that, used together, should help your party make a better showing:

Tactic 1: Prior preparation. (I assume you have a Mage with access to Evocation (a.k.a. Invocation) spells and a Thief. Who is your sixth party member?) Have your Mage and Cleric memorize the spells that you will need specifically for this fight. Starting with your most well protected Fighter, cast Bless on all three of your front line, in very quick succession. Then quickly step through the door to meet the wights. If you have Prayer, cast it just after going through the door (or, better, just after summons are called).

**IF** you have the cash and don't have another definite goal for it --> If any of your warriors have 2PP or better skill in a +3 or better weapon that is available for sale, maybe now would be a good time to buy it. (Lonesome Road and The Giving Star are two buys that were a perfect fit for my party, and I found to have lasting value. Also, there is another... Oops! almost spoiled for ya.) If you have not otherwise been feeling pinched for firepower, save your money: I think you can get through this.

Tactic 2: Use the pause button A LOT! Think about what you are going to do. Think about what the enemy will likely do. Think about how to screw the enemy's future plans. Your current plan should always extend at least two rounds ahead of the action.

Tactic 3: Form a protective line. Put your best AC characters on the front line. Stay close to the door, and try to arrange your front line so that Wights cannot do an end run around it to get at your weaker characters.

Tactic 4: Summons. Bolster your protective line with summons. No, they won't do much in the way of killing Wights; but every Wight blow to a summoned monster is a blow not aimed at YOU!

Tactic 5: Concentrate fire. Have all your front line concentrate on the monster in front of the middle guy. Have your weaker members in back join in on the same enemy with ranged weapons, if you have any that are effective. If you correctly followed Tactic 3, and your summons are placed correctly, the front line of your core party should all be able to do this without moving position.

Tactic 6: Fireball. Well, I said no one magic bullet; but this comes close. With your protective line or summons bunching up most of the Wights, throw a Fireball at just the right place to toast ALL of them without toasting any of your party. Oh, yes, it is quite doable. It might take a few reloads and reshaping your front line, if you haven't been practicing this technique; but the sheer joy of getting 12 Wight screams out of one spell is worth it. When you get it right, throw another Fireball and see what 12 Wight deaths from one spell feels like!

Tactic 7: Skull Trap. If you have a second Mage with Skull Trap, set her to work sprinkling these about such that the blast radius just barely misses your front line. Like Fireball, this takes practice. Unlike Fireball, this MUST be done quickly, before all wights have arrived at your front line.

Tactic 8: Aganazzar's Scorcher. Oh, how Cold wights hate fire! One of my favorite tactics is to have my front line perfectly lined up with all the enemy lined up toe-to-toe against them. Then I dodge my Mage out around the end of my front line, so that she is perfectly in line with the enemy; then cut loose on the farthest enemy with A. Scorcher and listen to the entire front line of the enemy sizzle and scream! Sniff, sniff, Mmmm... Please pass the A-1 sauce.

Tactic 9: Haste/Slow. As was mentioned by Aerich, Haste could be a real help. I hate the after effects; but you can lick your wounds at leisure after this tough battle. Slow might be just as helpful, without the drawback.

Tactic 10: Area effect spells like Web and Entangle. Additional advice to that already given: Definitely throw them to cover your weakest side and also make sure that as much of the sticky area as possible falls within the radius of your perfectly placed Fireballs.

Tactic 11: Flee (if needed). Again, good advice from Aerich. If you have to do this too much, then go back a level or two and sleep in monster-infested areas until you level.

How did I do it? A tough front line of Fighter (later to DC to Druid), Fighter (later to DC to Thief) and Ranger (later to DC to Cleric) kept the Wights from getting to my Cleric (later to DC to Fighter), MC Mage/Thief and Bard. No summons nor defensive spells were needed. My Mage Fireballed the entire area at least twice with perfectly placed spells to tenderize the enemy front line. Not all Wights got toasted twice. My Bard joined the magic action with, IIRC, a Skull Trap thrown in between the Mage's Fireballs. Then the Mage busied herself with Magic Missile, the Bard threw a fire potion, and the Cleric threw Prayer before joined the other three heavies in pulverizing first one then another of the smoking leftovers. My Fighters were at least 3PP in close-in weapon, and I'm sure my Ranger was maxed out at 2PP. No one in my party lost more than 1/4 of their HP.

I don't think these are easy kills at all. Compared to lizardmen they are quite hard to kill.

We aren't talking about the first battle. That, most would admit, is a bit tough: maybe one of the top dozen toughest battles relative to expected party stregth in IWD. And, yes Cold Wights are tougher than Lizardmen. But the expo is a lot more, and picking these guys off 2 or 4 at a time is a piece of cake for any party that can survive the initial battle. I think most would say that the expo gained for the effort is very good.

If it is not easy for your party to pulverize a party of 4 Wights (that you've surprised, because your Thief scouted ahead), expending only one low level spell (e.g., Web, Entangle, or low level summon) and negligible loss of HP, then I suggest you review your tactics and party make-up now; because it will get MUCH tougher before you finish Dragon's Eye. (It might be that you have played so efficiently that your party is not experienced enough; so go back and sleep at the end of DE1 until you level.)

I hope this helped.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

10-11-2004, 10:51 PM	#5
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	Calagari, I have a level 5 fighter/cleric for the lead man. He has plate + 1 and a weapon + 1. The other 2 fighters - rangers are similarily equipped but have weapons + 2 all this was found loot. The sheer amount of wights overwhelm my party. Could this be because I have HOW installed that they are more difficult to kill? Here, I think, is part of your problem. (And it is not HoW.) Now don't take this personally; but IMHO your front line needs help. Did I read that correctly, that you have two rangers and a Fighter/Cleric? And you have no Fighter (No, I mean a REAL Fighter, who has CON=18 and is getting 14 HP per level, and who can stack Proficiency Points more than 2 high in a weapon.); nor a Pally (although a Pally, good later in the game, is not much more help than a Ranger at this stage). (If you DO have a dual class or straight class Fighter, with Proficiency Points stacked at least 3 high in a close-in weapon, then please ignore all the ranting I am about to do.) I have a suggestion or two on how to beat this fight with your party as is; but first let me suggest that if you have 2 Rangers ditch at least one of them for a DUAL CLASS (DC) Fighter/Cleric, a DUAL CLASS Fighter/Mage, a DUAL CLASS Fighter/Druid, or, at the very least, a straight class Fighter. Notice that I did not say Multiclass: Multiclass Fighters cannot stack PP more than 2 high. You are taking this party into HoW? Then I highly recommend a DC Fighter[X]/Cleric, where X is 9, 12 or even 13; DEX=STR=CON=WIS=18; and you stack ALL you PP into EXACTLY ONE ranged and ONE close-in weapon. Also, your Fighter/Cleric and other warriors have DEX=18, right? Did you know that DEX has a tremendous effect on Armor Class (AC)? Yup. IIRC, a DEX of 18 gives you an AC bonus of 4. This is a tough fight at the beginning, as was said, because of the sheer number of Wights. In my treks, I've had to reload this battle once or maybe twice, myself. (Now don't say, "Duh!" at the following.) The key to victory for your lightly clad party is quick kills. The longer you let Wights hang around, the more damage they dish out. Your problem is that even one excellent Fighter would be hacking away for an hour getting rid of This many Wights; and (if I read you correctly) instead of two or three rock-hard warriors, you've got NOBODY with the deep Fighter skills needed to dispatch this crowd quickly. So, since you don't have the Fighter power to do it all, I hope you brought a Mage with access to Evocation spells There is no one "magic bullet" that will get you through (that I know of). Here are a few tips that, used together, should help your party make a better showing: Tactic 1: Prior preparation. (I assume you have a Mage with access to Evocation (a.k.a. Invocation) spells and a Thief. Who is your sixth party member?) Have your Mage and Cleric memorize the spells that you will need specifically for this fight. Starting with your most well protected Fighter, cast Bless on all three of your front line, in very quick succession. Then quickly step through the door to meet the wights. If you have Prayer, cast it just after going through the door (or, better, just after summons are called). IF you have the cash and don't have another definite goal for it --> If any of your warriors have 2PP or better skill in a +3 or better weapon that is available for sale, maybe now would be a good time to buy it. (Lonesome Road and The Giving Star are two buys that were a perfect fit for my party, and I found to have lasting value. Also, there is another... Oops! almost spoiled for ya.) If you have not otherwise been feeling pinched for firepower, save your money: I think you can get through this. Tactic 2: Use the pause button A LOT! Think about what you are going to do. Think about what the enemy will likely do. Think about how to screw the enemy's future plans. Your current plan should always extend at least two rounds ahead of the action. Tactic 3: Form a protective line. Put your best AC characters on the front line. Stay close to the door, and try to arrange your front line so that Wights cannot do an end run around it to get at your weaker characters. Tactic 4: Summons. Bolster your protective line with summons. No, they won't do much in the way of killing Wights; but every Wight blow to a summoned monster is a blow not aimed at YOU! Tactic 5: Concentrate fire. Have all your front line concentrate on the monster in front of the middle guy. Have your weaker members in back join in on the same enemy with ranged weapons, if you have any that are effective. If you correctly followed Tactic 3, and your summons are placed correctly, the front line of your core party should all be able to do this without moving position. Tactic 6: Fireball. Well, I said no one magic bullet; but this comes close. With your protective line or summons bunching up most of the Wights, throw a Fireball at just the right place to toast ALL of them without toasting any of your party. Oh, yes, it is quite doable. It might take a few reloads and reshaping your front line, if you haven't been practicing this technique; but the sheer joy of getting 12 Wight screams out of one spell is worth it. When you get it right, throw another Fireball and see what 12 Wight deaths from one spell feels like! Tactic 7: Skull Trap. If you have a second Mage with Skull Trap, set her to work sprinkling these about such that the blast radius just barely misses your front line. Like Fireball, this takes practice. Unlike Fireball, this MUST be done quickly, before all wights have arrived at your front line. Tactic 8: Aganazzar's Scorcher. Oh, how Cold wights hate fire! One of my favorite tactics is to have my front line perfectly lined up with all the enemy lined up toe-to-toe against them. Then I dodge my Mage out around the end of my front line, so that she is perfectly in line with the enemy; then cut loose on the farthest enemy with A. Scorcher and listen to the entire front line of the enemy sizzle and scream! Sniff, sniff, Mmmm... Please pass the A-1 sauce. Tactic 9: Haste/Slow. As was mentioned by Aerich, Haste could be a real help. I hate the after effects; but you can lick your wounds at leisure after this tough battle. Slow might be just as helpful, without the drawback. Tactic 10: Area effect spells like Web and Entangle. Additional advice to that already given: Definitely throw them to cover your weakest side and also make sure that as much of the sticky area as possible falls within the radius of your perfectly placed Fireballs. Tactic 11: Flee (if needed). Again, good advice from Aerich. If you have to do this too much, then go back a level or two and sleep in monster-infested areas until you level. How did I do it? A tough front line of Fighter (later to DC to Druid), Fighter (later to DC to Thief) and Ranger (later to DC to Cleric) kept the Wights from getting to my Cleric (later to DC to Fighter), MC Mage/Thief and Bard. No summons nor defensive spells were needed. My Mage Fireballed the entire area at least twice with perfectly placed spells to tenderize the enemy front line. Not all Wights got toasted twice. My Bard joined the magic action with, IIRC, a Skull Trap thrown in between the Mage's Fireballs. Then the Mage busied herself with Magic Missile, the Bard threw a fire potion, and the Cleric threw Prayer before joined the other three heavies in pulverizing first one then another of the smoking leftovers. My Fighters were at least 3PP in close-in weapon, and I'm sure my Ranger was maxed out at 2PP. No one in my party lost more than 1/4 of their HP. I don't think these are easy kills at all. Compared to lizardmen they are quite hard to kill. We aren't talking about the first battle. That, most would admit, is a bit tough: maybe one of the top dozen toughest battles relative to expected party stregth in IWD. And, yes Cold Wights are tougher than Lizardmen. But the expo is a lot more, and picking these guys off 2 or 4 at a time is a piece of cake for any party that can survive the initial battle. I think most would say that the expo gained for the effort is very good. If it is not easy for your party to pulverize a party of 4 Wights (that you've surprised, because your Thief scouted ahead), expending only one low level spell (e.g., Web, Entangle, or low level summon) and negligible loss of HP, then I suggest you review your tactics and party make-up now; because it will get MUCH tougher before you finish Dragon's Eye. (It might be that you have played so efficiently that your party is not experienced enough; so go back and sleep at the end of DE1 until you level.) I hope this helped. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!